everlong

Welker never had over 700 something yards before teaming with Brady and Colston has had Brees so as of now there's really no comparision as Colston is the clear winner. If Colston signed as a free agent with Tampa however and Lloyd in NE their numbers would be quite different.

Moore is a different type of receiver. Lloyd was creating offense on his own with his athletic ability. Moore agreed has great hands but he's not going to out leap Lloyd nor does he have his ability to seperate down the field. Moore wouldn't have the openings under neath in a different offense. Josh Freeman for instance would waste Moore's talents.

I'll take an over/under bet on Lloyd's production this year with the caveat that if he gets hurt all bets are off. Barring that He'll go over 60/1000/10.

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There's only two conclusions for Patriots fans on rookies. They are either a bust or being fitted for their bust in Canton.


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pherein

Having Brady or brees as a QB can only make you look better. Id have to say most of my reasoning to say Llyod would never be as good as Colston is the physical traits and catching ability.
Colston 6'4, 225 lbs, 4.50 in the 40, 37 vertical
Lloyd 6'0, 190 lbs, 4.62 in the 40, 36 vertical

Colston can out muscle most CB's for the ball, and I think he's proved that his catching ability is in the elite category. Colston makes Brees look good because he's a huge target that can catch impossible balls on the edge of his area. Not like meachem, who is a excellent WR, but can not usually catch fully extended.
Breaking all rookie records his 1st year is pretty impressive even with a Brees as a QB.
I dont consider Gronks breaking all the TE/passing/etc.. records to be diminish because he has Brady as a QB. It helped,lol, but he still had to do it, and if you stuck any other TE in his place for that season, even Graham, I don't see them doing the same.

Lloyds vertical is pretty impressive, considering his size. But his speed and mass put him at a disadvantage when comparing him to Colston.
Ive always thought that having Colston on the Patriots, with less targets than the Saints have had, he would have had 300-500 extra yards a year, and more TD's.

Your completely right there is no way to be sure, if the situation where reversed.
But my gut tells me that there are elite WR like Fitzgerald, Moss, Carter, Johnson, etc..
in the NFL. Who seem to perform at a high level, and have an amazing work ethic, no matter what situation they are in.
I put Colston in that category. I don't have Lloyd in the category , yet. But my opinion is just that, and no way to prove it,lol.

Almost everything you said comparing Lloyd and Moore I agree with, except getting open underneath. Moore is the best route runner on our team, a the favorite WR of Brees, he's said that. Moore never quits on a play and is open probably more than any target on the Saints. He's just a slippery little guy with, 4.5 speed, and great hands. But Freeman would waste his talents. He needs a Brees or Brady to be as effective as he has been, and Llyod is better.

I think thats a safe bet , wouldn't surprise me if he had 70/1200/10 either.

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everlong

Fair enough.

The only other thing I would say is that Lloyd in spite of not having the greatest speed measurables is that he has good enough straight line and short area speed that when you couple that with his football smarts and leaping it makes him more dangerous than people with a stop watch think.

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"When Peyton Manning was a kid he used to go to bed at night and dream about throwing the winning touchdown for the Saints in the Superbowl. And on Sunday he did."

There's only two conclusions for Patriots fans on rookies. They are either a bust or being fitted for their bust in Canton.


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pherein

Completely agree, and you point out something I forgot. Lioyd is a very smart football player.
At the risk of repeating though. I am always stunned by his vertical capability on the field. Graham is listed as a 39 vertical in the combine, but has a number of 41 verticals in camp, and I think Lloyd is the same. It would not surprise me at all if he has a 39 vertical in game.

I only posted this thread because we had the same in our site. So, I thought, well I'm not going to learn a lot about our team with our fans,lol.
And measuring the Saints against a Super Bowl team with brilliant coaching and Brady, is a good indicator of how we stand in the NFC.

I love Meachem but he was always a Really good WR. Moore and Herndersons #'s suffered when Meachem entered the line up because he got the lions share of the plays. Both Henderson and Moore have been #1's WR's earlier when Meachem was just god awful. We had to many good WR's. I don't consider losing Meachem to be a problem.

Moore has always been better than Meachem, and Henderson just as good but with 4.35 break away speed. Arrington is is decent 4th, but Maybe Morgan or Toon will take that spot. This just gives Moore and Henderson more touches, which they can handle fine, their pros, be their done that.

Regardless of how anyone spins it, not having SP is going to hurt our offensive play calling, rhythm, and mismatches , a lot. No one can stay on top of a game beter offensively except BB. So I am trying to avoid that conversation completely,lol.
Its not possible for the Saints to be better than the Patriots without SP. I believe that to be a fact.

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Patriot Missile

As great as that Saints offense is, the X-Factor is Darren Sproles. Talking about fitting right in? He does that and then some. He is the ultimate security blanket to Bree's and probably the most dangerous weapon on that team besides Bree's himself. I would go as far as say he is in the top 5% of players that impact their rosters. How many times did the Saints find themselves in 3rd downs and then a short dump off pass changed their fortunes? Would be sack? There is Sproles again.

As great as the Pats were last year I would say the Saints offense was better in 2011. Unfortunately their defense couldn't stop a cold vs SF cuz imo the Saints would of made mince meat out of the Giants and then cut our defense to sliced cheese. I'm not conceding defeat to the Saints. Brady would of diced them up too. It would of came down to turnovers and probably been a high scoring affair. Btw I think we matched up better against the 49ers as well and BB certainly would of been able to stop 1 TE with a concentrated effort.

I'm pretty confident that the Pats will be the better offense this year with the additions on offense via free agency, not to mention the coaching situation over there.

pherein

Im not. Saints have a proven product. Veterans are moving into Veteran positions to cover Veterans leaving. Patriots have a elite product but moving ?'s into positions to cover a stable product. Im just saying don't trust the ?'s, lol.

Completely agree, coaching is going to kill us. SP walked into a losing team and made a difference for a reason. He can't be replaced. We probably can't compete.

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