Ron Sellers

If you strictly want to compare the two team's top wide receivers, here are the 2011 numbers

Patriots
122-1569 - 9 -- Wes Welker
70 - 966 - 5 -- Brandon Lloyd
68 - 947 - 5 -- Jabar Gaffney
51 - 702 - 5 -- Deion Branch

Saints
80 - 1143 - 8 -- Marques Colston
52 -- 627 - 8 -- Lance Moore
32 -- 503 - 2 -- Devery Henderson
2 ---- 31 - 0 -- Adrian Arrington

Now obviously those numbers are a bit skewed. Lloyd and Gaffney's production will likely decrease as their proportion of the team's offense will decrease (no longer the number one option), while that of Moore, Henderson and Arrington will increase to offset the loss of Robert Meachem (40-620-6). Even so, if I had to make a wager based on which group will outperform the other I think I would have to go with the Patriots' receivers.


If you want to change the term from 'WR' to 'pass catchers' then it gets a little trickier, but may paint a more complete picture. The Pats' totals look better with the addition of the tight ends, while the Saints' improves with the inclusion of the running back position.

Patriots
122 - 1569 - 9 -- Wes Welker
90 -- 1327 - 17 -- Rob Gronkowski
70 --- 966 - 5 -- Brandon Lloyd
68 --- 947 - 5 -- Jabar Gaffney
79 --- 910 - 7 -- Aaron Hernandez
51 --- 702 - 5 -- Deion Branch
23 --- 386 - 1 -- other receivers on team in 2011
37 --- 363 - 0 -- all running backs on team in 2011
19 --- 256 - 3 -- Daniel Fells

Saints
99 - 1310 - 11 - Jimmy Graham
80 - 1143 - 8 -- Marques Colston
86 -- 710 - 7 -- Darren Sproles
52 -- 627 - 8 -- Lance Moore
32 -- 503 - 2 -- Devery Henderson
50 -- 425 - 1 -- Pierre Thomas
11 --- 50 - 2 -- Jed Collins
11 --- 46 - 0 -- Mark Ingram
8 ---- 36 - 1 -- John Gilmore/David Thomas
2 ---- 31 - 0 -- Adrian Arrington
1 ----- 4 - 0 -- Michael Higgins


Projecting ahead for 2012 it's not really a question of Lloyd vs Colston to me; instead the comparisons in production should look something like this:

• Gronkowski vs Graham
• Welker vs Colston
• Lloyd vs Moore
• Gaffney vs Henderson
• Hernandez vs Sproles
• Fells vs other Saints TEs
• Pats WR#4 (Branch?) vs Arrington
• All Pats RBs vs all other Saints RBs (not Sproles)

While it is something that could go either way, I'm more inclined to give the edge to the Patriots in the 2012 passing game.

Salva135

I think it's close, but I really, really love the Saints offense and hope the Pats can emulate them better with more incorporation of the running game and pass-catchers out of the backfield, which Josh McD is more than capable of. Belichick faxed (lol) the Saints yesterday about joint practices in training camp, I think he loves learning from them.

rfournier103

Hmm.... Tough to say. Anyone can look up the stats from last year, so I'm going to comment about TODAY. Drew Brees is NOT under contract, and the Patriots have a new coordinator, a new starting running back, a new left tackle, and several new recievers.

I have every confidence that offense won't be the Patriots' issue this year, there can be no way of knowing who will be better. There's just too many variables. I think I could better answer this question after seeing some exhibition games (that's what those glorified practices are) and seeing how the new players adapt to their new roles on their new team.

As for the Saints... I think it's going to be a tough season on so many levels. Between the coaching and defense being decimated by the NFL over the bounty scandal, one would think the offense would be the beacon of hope. I wasn't expecting much from the Saints this year, but with no Drew Brees, the whole New Orleans team, nevermind just the offense, isn't going anywhere. When Brees signs, I'll come back and have a more complete answer.

Snake Eyes

The Pats also don't play half their games in a dome. Advantage Pats.

__________________
"The secret of steel has always carried with it a mystery, you must learn it's riddle, Conan, you must learn its discipline, for no one in this world can you trust, not men, not women, not beasts...this you can trust"


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

PatsSox363804

More than half, they play in Atlanta every year. Last year they played 11 dome games to the Patriots 0. This year they have 10 and the Pats have 0 again because the Rams game is in London.

pherein

Sense this has become a dome " no dome" discussion, and not about the teams so much. Let me ask..
Can you beat the Saints in their Dome?
Meaning, if we played 10 games in the SuperDome you think you would be 5 wins 5 losses even, or 6 ,7, 8 wins?
Do you think the Patriots where lucky to get the Giants at lucas stadium instead of the saints?

__________________
Time to make the DOMENuts!!!!

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

PatsSox363804

Judging from how we play the Giants we're never "lucky" to get them.

I don't think that's what we're discussing though, we're talking about overall numbers. Saying I think we'd split with the Saints in the Superdome would be disrespectful to the Saints, it's their home field. Now do I think we'd split or possibly win more than 50% vs New Orleans in a neutral domed stadium? Sure, at least the odds would be better than doing so in New Orleans.

That said do I think Brady would have larger passing numbers if he played 10 games in a dome vs having all of the Pats home games in Foxboro? Yes. Would the Patriots offense for a season produce bigger stats in that scenario? Yes. How could it not? You never have to adjust your gamplan due to weather. You never have 40 MPH wind tunnels in Buffalo that prevent you from chucking it all over the field and what not.

pherein

QUOTE=Ron Sellers;3056959]

Now obviously those numbers are a bit skewed. Lloyd and Gaffney's production will likely decrease as their proportion of the team's offense will decrease (no longer the number one option), while that of Moore, Henderson and Arrington will increase to offset the loss of Robert Meachem (40-620-6). Even so, if I had to make a wager based on which group will outperform the other I think I would have to go with the Patriots' receivers.[/QUOTE]
At this point I would be forced to agree with you. But its important to see that
Lloyd and Gaffney have not done a thing on the Patriots ..yet. At the moment its just a fan pipe dream. They may do more harm than good or just not work out at all.
Arrington is pretty solid, played very well when called to, just hasn't played much.
Morgan and Toon are a pipe dream for us.
New Orleans Saints receivers set to battle for No. 4 spot - New Orleans Saints Football NFL News - NOLA.com
Nice story but we all know how it usually ends.


Love that consider the term 'pass catcher' to be much more relevant in todays modern offenses. I really like Lloyd, we play against him every year. Jabar Gaffney was with the Pats for a couple years I thought, and that didn't work out. Im not willing to give him the superstar status just yet. Lloyd, I can tell everyone here, is going to be a instant hit. He's pretty damn good. Going to be interesting to see what he can do with a elite QB throwing to him.
The numbers are wrong though. Your not going to plug in 1900 fictional yards from
Lloyd and Gaffney from other teams they played on. Someones numbers are going to drop,lol.
Take 900-1000 yards off Welker and Gronk and I might believe Lloyd and Gaffney numbers.



I have to agree that the Pats might have a better WR core this year. Im not counting Gaffney in that. I think he's a stable piece, but not a big time player. He's not better than Henderson. If you consider Henderson function as a deep threat sprinter. Thats his role on the Saints. Look at Receiving 'Lng', and Y/R.

Devery Henderson NFL Football Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com

Jabar Gaffney NFL Football Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com

You don't think this year its more a

• Gronkowski vs Graham
• Lloyd vs Colston
• Welker vs Moore ( both slot WR's)
• Hernandez vs Henderson
• Gaffney, Branch vs Arrington, Morgan, or Toon
• ? vs Sproles
• ? vs Thomas
• BJGE vs Ivory

This year ?

Moore has close to Welkers catching ability. Meaning leading the NFC in least dropped balls for a number of years now.
NFC South's good-hands club - NFC South Blog - ESPN
With Meachem gone that only means more passes his way, and we both know he can handle that. But Welker is always going to be better.
[*]Lloyd vs Colston is the real question. Right now you have to take Colston. We both know he's going to do 1000 or so again. I don't see Lloyd as a question mark. I think he will do 1000 yards on the Pats. But Colston is younger, much taller, a bigger target, and done more with his career.

Marques Colston NFL Football Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com

Brandon Lloyd NFL Football Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com

You can match Colston vs Welker and Gronk vs Graham and come out even in the end, but do you think Lloyd is really better than Moore?
I just think the match up should be as I showed above. You think I'm wrong?

With Sproles, Thomas , and Ivory as pass catchers out of the back field, I don't think the Pats have an answer for that. BJGE and Ivory are pretty equal. But there is no Sproles or Thomas type player on the Patriots.

Hernz is putting you over the top for me in the WR area.

__________________
Time to make the DOMENuts!!!!

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Ron Sellers

Just to clarify I purposely avoided comparing same position vs same position, which is why I did not compare Welker to Moore and why I did compare Hernandez to Sproles; it was more an attempt to equalize the comparison of percentage of production.

Gaffney did quite well when he was here before. About half way through the 2007 season he surpassed Stallworth as the receiver on the outside to Brady's right. The Chiefs offered more money than the Pats did and in retrospect the difference was small enough that I am sure Belichick wishes he could have a mulligan on that decision. I wouldn't characterize it as 'not working out'.

While it is true that Lloyd and Gaffney did not play for the Patriots last year there are valid reasons to anticipate they will catch on easily, and do well. Lloyd has played for OC Josh McDaniels for the last few years, and Gaffney picked up the system when he played in this offense before. Both had over 900 yards receiving last year, and that was with inferior quarterbacks throwing them the ball.

The point is not that they are going to duplicate those numbers - they aren't - which is why I said "obviously those numbers are a bit skewed. Lloyd and Gaffney's production will likely decrease as their proportion of the team's offense will decrease (no longer the number one option)." The point is that based on what they did last year and based on their past success in this offensive system, there is reason to believe they will be successful when called upon (as opposed to what happened with Ochocinco or Taylor Price).

ProudestRyno

Is this a serious comment?