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View Poll Results: Which position is a bigger need?
Linebackers 35 83.33%
#1 Corner 7 16.67%
Voters: 42. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old 03-21-2008, 11:44 AM
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Default Which is a bigger need? A #1 corner? OR Linebackers?

With all the hand wringing over DBs I went to the Pats website to see who was on our roster at these two positions.

http://www.patriots.com/depthchart.cfm

These are the linebackers CURRENTLY on the roster
Mike Vrabel
Pierre Woods
Eric Alexander
Tedy Bruschi
Larry Izzo
Adalius Thomas
T.J. Slaughter

You've got to be kidding me. Who are our Inside linebackers? Teddy Bruschi and who? WE NEED LINEBACKERS!

These are the DBs currently on our roster
Fernando Bryant
Jason Webster
Lewis Sanders
Mike Richardson
TIm Mixon
Ellis Hobbs
Brandon Meriweather
Antwain Spann
Rodney Harrison
Willie Andrews
Tank Williams
Ray Ventrone
James Sanders

Yep, no "SEXY" names but there is a lot more depth and flexibility at that position than at Linebacker.
If we stay at #7 I want the BEST LINEBACKER available. I wouldn't mind if we drafted one in the
2nd or 3rd rounds too. Yes, we don't have a #1 corner and yes it is a need, but we have flexibility in our secondary. Take a look at that Linebacker list and tell me that we don't need Linebackers on this team. THIS IS OUR TOP NEED IN THE DRAFT, IMO. Our depth at Linebacker is FRIGHTENING. If BB/Pioli don't draft at least one linebacker on day one of the draft, I will be STUNNED.

This is what I want to see on draft day
Linebacker (at least 2)
Corner (1 or 2)

after that I wouldn't mind a player at the following positions:
Offensive Tackle (Super Bowl performance still haunts me)
Tightend (Blocking)
Running Back (Faulk isn't getting any younger)
and a damn PUNTER WHO CAN PUNT!! HANSON IS NOT THE ANSWER
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  #2  
Old 03-21-2008, 12:01 PM
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Default Re: Which is a bigger need? A #1 corner? OR Linebackers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DefenseRules View Post
With all the hand wringing over DBs I went to the Pats website to see who was on our roster at these two positions.

http://www.patriots.com/depthchart.cfm

These are the linebackers CURRENTLY on the roster
Mike Vrabel
Pierre Woods
Eric Alexander
Tedy Bruschi
Larry Izzo
Adalius Thomas
T.J. Slaughter

You've got to be kidding me. Who are our Inside linebackers? Teddy Bruschi and who? WE NEED LINEBACKERS!

These are the DBs currently on our roster
Fernando Bryant
Jason Webster
Lewis Sanders
Mike Richardson
TIm Mixon
Ellis Hobbs
Brandon Meriweather
Antwain Spann
Rodney Harrison
Willie Andrews
Tank Williams
Ray Ventrone
James Sanders

Yep, no "SEXY" names but there is a lot more depth and flexibility at that position than at Linebacker.
If we stay at #7 I want the BEST LINEBACKER available. I wouldn't mind if we drafted one in the
2nd or 3rd rounds too. Yes, we don't have a #1 corner and yes it is a need, but we have flexibility in our secondary. Take a look at that Linebacker list and tell me that we don't need Linebackers on this team. THIS IS OUR TOP NEED IN THE DRAFT, IMO. Our depth at Linebacker is FRIGHTENING. If BB/Pioli don't draft at least one linebacker on day one of the draft, I will be STUNNED.

This is what I want to see on draft day
Linebacker (at least 2)
Corner (1 or 2)

after that I wouldn't mind a player at the following positions:
Offensive Tackle (Super Bowl performance still haunts me)
Tightend (Blocking)
Running Back (Faulk isn't getting any younger)
and a damn PUNTER WHO CAN PUNT!! HANSON IS NOT THE ANSWER
I think there is a different angle to this.
No doubt ILB and CB are areas of need now and in the future. I'm not in the crowd that says OLB is need because we have Vrabel and Thomas, and have traditionally restocked this position through free agency rather than the draft. (Without belaboring possible reasons, it seems that this is something BB has alwaysbelieved in doing) While at corner, we have used the draft much more than at almost any other position. The corners we have brought in are competing for jobs, and are short term answers. I'm confident one of them can start at times and/or play nickel, and another will survive cutdowns and be somewhere deep on the depth chart. We need a corner, not only to contribute this year (in a perfect world to me he is the nickel and maybe, possibly starts by the end of the year) start by 09 and be a fixture in our secondary for 4 more years or more beyond that.
The question is IMPACT. If you are drafting at #7 (or trading down, which I prefer) what impact do you get at these need areas?
ILB- I think there are rare few ILBs who can have "#7 impact" and none of them are in this draft
OLB- I do not think the impact of an OLB can be "#7 impact" when you have 2 excellent OLBs he will play behind for at least 2 years. I also see no one that impresses me as a #7 value OLB.
CB- The impact can be immense. As the nickel in his rookie year, he will play a key role. From there on, it gives us a long term solid player at a very critical position. There are numerous corners that belong in the middle of the first round. Trading down seems wise, but if a trade down partner isnt there, I see nothing wrong with taking 10-13th slot vaue at 7, if it fits need. I would much rather take a corner at 7 who we could have at 12 if we traded down, but no one wants to move up, than to take a guy like Gholston, who is not right for our system, who would langusih behind Vrabel and Thomas while he tries to learn a new postion, and who we later find out is not best suited to play off blockers, but is a one gap player. I'm not to worried that BB will pick a guy who the 'experts' and media have inflated the value of over a guy that isn't getting as high a rating from those 'experts' but will do much, much more to help us win.

Beyond round 1, I think we do look at the LB position. A TE seems smart, and we should draft at least one more corner in additon to the 1st round.
The list above has a lot of names on it, but we need better names than the ones there.
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  #3  
Old 03-21-2008, 12:03 PM
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Default Re: Which is a bigger need? A #1 corner? OR Linebackers?

linebackers, a decent corner can be a shutdown one with a fantastic pass rush, simple as see superbowl 42
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Old 03-21-2008, 12:09 PM
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Default Re: Which is a bigger need? A #1 corner? OR Linebackers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyJohnson View Post
I think there is a different angle to this.
No doubt ILB and CB are areas of need now and in the future. I'm not in the crowd that says OLB is need because we have Vrabel and Thomas, and have traditionally restocked this position through free agency rather than the draft. (Without belaboring possible reasons, it seems that this is something BB has alwaysbelieved in doing) While at corner, we have used the draft much more than at almost any other position. The corners we have brought in are competing for jobs, and are short term answers. I'm confident one of them can start at times and/or play nickel, and another will survive cutdowns and be somewhere deep on the depth chart. We need a corner, not only to contribute this year (in a perfect world to me he is the nickel and maybe, possibly starts by the end of the year) start by 09 and be a fixture in our secondary for 4 more years or more beyond that.
The question is IMPACT. If you are drafting at #7 (or trading down, which I prefer) what impact do you get at these need areas?
ILB- I think there are rare few ILBs who can have "#7 impact" and none of them are in this draft
OLB- I do not think the impact of an OLB can be "#7 impact" when you have 2 excellent OLBs he will play behind for at least 2 years. I also see no one that impresses me as a #7 value OLB.
CB- The impact can be immense. As the nickel in his rookie year, he will play a key role. From there on, it gives us a long term solid player at a very critical position. There are numerous corners that belong in the middle of the first round. Trading down seems wise, but if a trade down partner isnt there, I see nothing wrong with taking 10-13th slot vaue at 7, if it fits need. I would much rather take a corner at 7 who we could have at 12 if we traded down, but no one wants to move up, than to take a guy like Gholston, who is not right for our system, who would langusih behind Vrabel and Thomas while he tries to learn a new postion, and who we later find out is not best suited to play off blockers, but is a one gap player. I'm not to worried that BB will pick a guy who the 'experts' and media have inflated the value of over a guy that isn't getting as high a rating from those 'experts' but will do much, much more to help us win.

Beyond round 1, I think we do look at the LB position. A TE seems smart, and we should draft at least one more corner in additon to the 1st round.
The list above has a lot of names on it, but we need better names than the ones there.
Well thought out post. But I have always felt that a good front seven is important for any SECONDARY to produce effectively. In 2002, we had Ty Law and Lawyer Milloy in our secondary. Our front seven was a weakness. We couldn't stop the run or rush the Passer effectively. It hurt our secondary. Linebackers are vital in our 3-4 scheme. We don't have enough of them.
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Last edited by DefenseRules; 03-21-2008 at 12:11 PM.
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  #5  
Old 03-21-2008, 12:19 PM
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Default Re: Which is a bigger need? A #1 corner? OR Linebackers?

I would hope the Pats would add some depth at LB, but they may be saving the position for the first round draft pick. The first pick won't be corner because they basically signed 3 jags to 1 year deals hoping to take the best 2 of them to replace Samuel and Gay. Then draft a CB with the 2nd or 3rd pick to ween into the starting position next year. If I'm wrong they better have Seau on speed dial.
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Old 03-21-2008, 12:38 PM
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Default Re: Which is a bigger need? A #1 corner? OR Linebackers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DefenseRules View Post
and a damn PUNTER WHO CAN PUNT!! HANSON IS NOT THE ANSWER

What's a "punt"?
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  #7  
Old 03-21-2008, 12:42 PM
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Default Re: Which is a bigger need? A #1 corner? OR Linebackers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Muhozi View Post
linebackers, a decent corner can be a shutdown one with a fantastic pass rush, simple as see superbowl 42
Point taken but I disagree. Look at the AFC receivers: Wayne, Ocho Cinco, etc. Are you kidding me? These guys would tear apart our defense.

As for superbowl 42: reference the last play when a not even a fringe top 10 wideout easily caught the game's winning catch. No pass rush in the world from the DL would have stopped that play.

Finally, a CB can lock and load and contribute faster than a LB in Belichick's scheme. Maybe not a safety, but a cornerback possibly.
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Old 03-21-2008, 12:43 PM
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Default Re: Which is a bigger need? A #1 corner? OR Linebackers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiZa View Post
I would hope the Pats would add some depth at LB, but they may be saving the position for the first round draft pick. The first pick won't be corner because they basically signed 3 jags to 1 year deals hoping to take the best 2 of them to replace Samuel and Gay. Then draft a CB with the 2nd or 3rd pick to ween into the starting position next year. If I'm wrong they better have Seau on speed dial.
I would hope that BB doesnt think signing jags to one year deals solves the problem. His history shows that he always signs veteran corners in the offseason and more end up cut than end up on the team.
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Old 03-21-2008, 12:47 PM
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Default Re: Which is a bigger need? A #1 corner? OR Linebackers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DefenseRules View Post
Well thought out post. But I have always felt that a good front seven is important for any SECONDARY to produce effectively. In 2002, we had Ty Law and Lawyer Milloy in our secondary. Our front seven was a weakness. We couldn't stop the run or rush the Passer effectively. It hurt our secondary. Linebackers are vital in our 3-4 scheme. We don't have enough of them.
It just not possible in the NFL today to consistenly have the kind of pass rush you are talking about.
Not to mention that as much as pass rush helps coverage, coverage helps pass rushing. They have to work together. If you cant rush the QB yu have to cover for too long, if you cant cover, you do not have time ot rush the QB.
Look at it this way:
If we created a dominanting pass rush, with awful corners, teams would run WCO style gameplans against us, the ball would be out before any rush could get there, and receivers would be wide open, plus they would max protect in other instances. Pass rushing can always be nuetralized, good coverage is much harder to beat.
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Old 03-21-2008, 01:18 PM
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Default Re: Which is a bigger need? A #1 corner? OR Linebackers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DefenseRules View Post
Well thought out post. But I have always felt that a good front seven is important for any SECONDARY to produce effectively. In 2002, we had Ty Law and Lawyer Milloy in our secondary. Our front seven was a weakness. We couldn't stop the run or rush the Passer effectively. It hurt our secondary. Linebackers are vital in our 3-4 scheme. We don't have enough of them.
Your overall point is correct but Lawyer Milloy was dreadful in 2002. Absolutely horrible.

I believe the stat from Patriot Reign was he was the only starter in the league not to get either an INT, Sack, or fumble recovery. He was cut prior to 2003.
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