WR - Free Agency, Trade, or Draft? - Page 4 - New England Patriots Forums

PatsCanDoIt · 01-27-2010, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snake Eyes

I don't know, but I do know that great numbers in college doesn't mean the guy will work well in the pros, and lack of big college numbers doesn't mean he won't be good.

From the footage I've seen of him I think he definitely has skill.

Where was that skill when his team needed him in the red zone? People think he is some sort of "playmaker", but playmakers at the WR position score. A lack of big numbers most certainly means he shouldn't be drafted early; which is where Benn is predicted to go.

BillBelichickFan79 · 01-27-2010, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by captain stone

Outstanding post, BBF79.

I agree with just about everything in it. In fact, I suggest that Bill should use all 3 approaches:
Use one of the 2nd-rounders to draft a WR or trade for one such as Boldin;
Sign a UFA such as Kevin Walter or Josh Reed, and then Sign either Stallworth or Branch;
and Use a 7th-rounder or UDFA slot on a developmental WR or 2.

2010 could look like (in order of pref.):
Moss - GTate/Benn (or Boldin)
Walter (or Reed) - Edelman
BTate - Stallworth (or Branch, Tom's choice)
UDFA - Stanback
Aiken - Slater (both = TC Fodder only)

Thank you, Captain. I appreciate the good feedback. I'm definitely hoping Bill will be very active in re-tooling at WR so we can add some nice weapons for Brady. I'd be very happy with the scenarios we discussed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PatsCanDoIt

If Arrelius Benn has so much talent, then he should have made a bigger impact at the college level. For those who like the guy so much, why did he catch only catch 7 career TDs? Calvin Johnson had absolutely terrible QBs in college and caught 28 TDs. Even Darius Heyward-Bey caught a mediocre 13 TDs. Benn has been starting since he got there. Oh yeah, Ron Zook recruited and coached Chad Jackson as well.

You're entitled to your opinion on Benn. When I watch him play I see a talented playmaker that I think will make an impact in the NFL. But by your logic, Graham Harrell should be an All-Pro QB based on the production he had in college. He threw for over 5,000 yards in 07 and 08. He had 2007-Brady-esque numbers in 07 and 08, throwing 48 TD and 14 INT in 07 and 45 TD and 9 INT in 08. Tim Tebow 88 career passing TD's and 16 INT. That's great but it doesn't mean he's going to be a good pro QB. When looking at a prospect, numbers and production are nice, but they aren't everything.
In 2007, Benn was named Freshman of the Year in the Big 10, Second Team Freshman All-America, and broke the Illinois record for receiving yards as a freshman. In 08 he earned first team All-Big Ten honors and was fourth team All-America. He 5 100-yard games and is one of only four WR's to have reached 1,000 yards receiving in Illinois history. Those stats/achievements are more impressive to me than TD's caught, especially considering the Big Ten isn't a pass happy league like the Big 12.

***DaBruinz*** · 01-27-2010, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seneschal2

Antonio Bryant - if he's now a team player - no room for poor attitudes
Deion Branch - if there's anything left in the tank
Golden Tate - the Weis offense
Eric Decker - very polished, highly productive, considered NFL ready
Andre Roberts - Citadel - small school sleeper, also highly productive and consistent. Very impressive at Senior Bowl
Brandon Tate - was drafted for a reason

I think BB will sign AND draft a WR.

Terrific post BTW.

Not sure how Eric Decker is considered NFL ready when it's unlikely that he'll be healthy enough to run at the combine or for his Pro-Day. His foot injury occured in November and they gave a minimum 6 month recovery time. That is May.

Also, I question whether any WR coming out of Minnesota (primarly a running offense) is NFL ready. If he is and the Pats take him, Great.

***DaBruinz*** · 01-27-2010, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillBelichickFan79

You're entitled to your opinion on Benn. When I watch him play I see a talented playmaker that I think will make an impact in the NFL. But by your logic, Graham Harrell should be an All-Pro QB based on the production he had in college. He threw for over 5,000 yards in 07 and 08. He had 2007-Brady-esque numbers in 07 and 08, throwing 48 TD and 14 INT in 07 and 45 TD and 9 INT in 08. Tim Tebow 88 career passing TD's and 16 INT. That's great but it doesn't mean he's going to be a good pro QB. When looking at a prospect, numbers and production are nice, but they aren't everything.
In 2007, Benn was named Freshman of the Year in the Big 10, Second Team Freshman All-America, and broke the Illinois record for receiving yards as a freshman. In 08 he earned first team All-Big Ten honors and was fourth team All-America. He 5 100-yard games and is one of only four WR's to have reached 1,000 yards receiving in Illinois history. Those stats/achievements are more impressive to me than TD's caught, especially considering the Big Ten isn't a pass happy league like the Big 12.

What was Illinois' running game like? If Illinois used the running game in the Red Zone instead of the passing game or used the TE more than the WR, then it's hard to fault Benn. Especially when one of the first things that just about EVERY scouting report mentions on the kid is that the QB position was a HUGE issue for Illinois.

DocE · 01-27-2010, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaBruinz

Not sure how Eric Decker is considered NFL ready when it's unlikely that he'll be healthy enough to run at the combine or for his Pro-Day. His foot injury occured in November and they gave a minimum 6 month recovery time. That is May.

Also, I question whether any WR coming out of Minnesota (primarly a running offense) is NFL ready. If he is and the Pats take him, Great.

Minnesota has not been a primarily running offense since Decker's freshman year. Minnesota ran Mike Dunbar's (Northwestern/Cal previously) version of the spread in Decker's sophomore and junior years. In Decker's senior year, Minnesota ran a pro style offense under Jedd Fisch (who left to go back to the NFL to be Pete Carroll's QB coach).

PatsCanDoIt · 01-27-2010, 08:44 PM

Sure stats can be inflated or deflated to some degree, but why draft Benn in the 1st two rounds when every other, top ten WR outproduced him? TDs are a predictor for early round WRs. A lack of them correlates to not making plays on in the NFL.

WRs with as much talent as Benn allegedly has get wide open almost every game in college. So I am to believe that he is good enough to get wide open frequently, but his QB is so rarely able to find his "best" read that Benn only has 7 TDs after literally hundreds of pass attempts?

Great athlete? Yes. Great receiver? No, or at least less known than other guys. Which makes him a no for me. Classic boom/bust pick. Benn does has a place in this league. It's just not on a Patriots team that needs high draft picks to have their head in the game.

Oh, and this is a WR thread not a Graham Harrell/QBs never projected as 1st rounders thread.

BillBelichickFan79 · 01-27-2010, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaBruinz

What was Illinois' running game like? If Illinois used the running game in the Red Zone instead of the passing game or used the TE more than the WR, then it's hard to fault Benn. Especially when one of the first things that just about EVERY scouting report mentions on the kid is that the QB position was a HUGE issue for Illinois.

I know in 2007 they had Mendenhall who was an absolute stud for them. Not sure about 08 and 09, but I know their offense was horrendous this year and Benn was injured early on. I would assume they liked to keep the ball on the ground in the Red Zone given that the Big 10 is a more smashmouth conference and Juice Williams was so turnover prone. QB was a big issue as Williams has been terribly inconsistent and very ineffective at times during his career.

I still don't get why that other poster thinks TD's are of much importance. When you watch Benn play you can see the talent he has. From what I've seen he's a playmaking WR that has good size, bulk, hands, and speed and would make a great #2 across from Moss.

BillBelichickFan79 · 01-27-2010, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PatsCanDoIt

Sure stats can be inflated or deflated to some degree, but why draft Benn in the 1st two rounds when every other, top ten WR outproduced him? TDs are a predictor for early round WRs. A lack of them correlates to not making plays on in the NFL.

WRs with as much talent as Benn allegedly has get wide open almost every game in college. So I am to believe that he is good enough to get wide open frequently, but his QB is so rarely able to find his "best" read that Benn only has 7 TDs after literally hundreds of pass attempts?

Great athlete? Yes. Great receiver? No, or at least less known than other guys. Which makes him a no for me. Classic boom/bust pick. Benn does has a place in this league. It's just not on a Patriots team that needs high draft picks to have their head in the game.

Oh, and this is a WR thread not a Graham Harrell/QBs never projected as 1st rounders thread.

What you are saying doesn't make sense. Look at Wes Welker. He doesn't have a ton of TD's yet he moves the chains is a huge key in almost all of our drives. I haven't watched a ton of Illinois games, but Benn could drive the team all the way down to the 15 yard line and then Illinois could go to a heavy running attack to ensure points are put on the board due to a shaky QB in Juice Williams. It happens in the NFL a lot, especially with young QB's. The Jets kept the ball on the ground a lot in the red zone b/c of Sanchez's knack for the pick.

I'm not saying Benn is a lock to be a great WR but I think he's worth a pick in the 2nd. I'm not opposed to a guy like Golden Tate or Shipley, but from what I've seen on the field the times that I've watched, Benn is the guy I like the most. And there is no way I wouldn't even consider him in the 2nd round because of his lack of TD's.

Patriot Missile · 01-27-2010, 09:50 PM

I think we drafted a good Tate last season. He's a year past his surgery and will be stronger with a better idea on how the playbook works. I can't forget how good this kid was before the injury and I expect pretty much for him to make an impact as the #2 wr moving forward .

PatsCanDoIt · 01-27-2010, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillBelichickFan79

What you are saying doesn't make sense. Look at Wes Welker. He doesn't have a ton of TD's yet he moves the chains is a huge key in almost all of our drives. I haven't watched a ton of Illinois games, but Benn could drive the team all the way down to the 15 yard line and then Illinois could go to a heavy running attack to ensure points are put on the board due to a shaky QB in Juice Williams. It happens in the NFL a lot, especially with young QB's. The Jets kept the ball on the ground a lot in the red zone b/c of Sanchez's knack for the pick.

I'm not saying Benn is a lock to be a great WR but I think he's worth a pick in the 2nd. I'm not opposed to a guy like Golden Tate or Shipley, but from what I've seen on the field the times that I've watched, Benn is the guy I like the most. And there is no way I wouldn't even consider him in the 2nd round because of his lack of TD's.

Welker scored 21 TDs in college, but not as the number one receiving option on his team. Benn has always been the number one. Reggie Ball sucked way worse than Juice Williams (he is Benn's personal scape goat), in a run first offense, and Calvin Johnson caught 28 TDs. It really is important. Benn caught 2 touchdowns, then 3 his best year, then 2 more this year. And he was a deep threat at 14ypc. People compare him to Boldin but Boldin caught 21 TDs in just 23 games at receiver. I look for the rule rather than gamble on the exception.