Idle thoughts - The Houston Match up. (Texan fans welcome) - Page 12 - New England Patriots Forums

IllegalContact · 01-07-2013, 11:37 AM

james is a 2 down LB.......he is useless in the passing game......at least there was a little coverage with dobbins and sharpton.

geno atkins? really? is he anything like vince wilfork? LMAO

it can get worse......just ask the rams.......and the colts.....and the jets.....and the bills.....and the dolphins......it can get worse.

the pats have had a history of doing that to wade phillips' defenses

Quote:

Originally Posted by TexasTradition

That was my point on the Cushing loss. We took a risk trading Demeco Ryans this offseason for future cap purposes. We could not afford to lose Cushing after that, and we did. After Cushing, the drop off is already there. They are all the same. They all suck. Bradie James was always the #2. And for what its worth (and it aint much), James had a better game than Dobbins in our last matchup. But yes, losing Dobbins does make us even thinner at this position.

Our offseason will be heavily focused on the right side of Oline, and getting another stud ILB to play along side Cushing when he returns. Last year these were strengths of our team and despite the other teams knowing what was coming, we still could not be stopped. This year, teams know whats coming... And we can not force our hand like we used to.

Look, I have very little confidence in us pulling this off. We should have beaten the Bengals by alot more, we are STILL settling for FGs. That is NOT going to cut it against you guys. But if there is one take away from the bungals game, is that we were able to run at will vs Geno Atkins and that front 7 and we controlled the line of scrimmage on both sides of the ball the entire game. I do think your LBs are a much stronger unit and much better at making the open field tackle than Cinci's LB unit so it may not mean a whole lot.

Minimal penalties (lol yea right), no turnovers, controlling the TOP, new wrinkles in our gameplans, and executing in the redzone will all have to be managed for us to even have a remote chance. But this is still a game, it has to be played, someone has to win, and anything can and does happen in this crazy game we love.

I do think this Texans team has a TON of heart, is a very close TEAM, and will be playing as if they have nothing to lose. I mean, it cant get any worse for us than in our last meeting right? RIGHT?! (this is me trying to be optimistic).

SeymourTrophies · 01-07-2013, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TexasTradition

Look, I have very little confidence in us pulling this off. We should have beaten the Bengals by alot more, we are STILL settling for FGs. That is NOT going to cut it against you guys. But if there is one take away from the bungals game, is that we were able to run at will vs Geno Atkins and that front 7 and we controlled the line of scrimmage on both sides of the ball the entire game. I do think your LBs are a much stronger unit and much better at making the open field tackle than Cinci's LB unit so it may not mean a whole lot.

Minimal penalties (lol yea right), no turnovers, controlling the TOP, new wrinkles in our gameplans, and executing in the redzone will all have to be managed for us to even have a remote chance. But this is still a game, it has to be played, someone has to win, and anything can and does happen in this crazy game we love.

I do think this Texans team has a TON of heart, is a very close TEAM, and will be playing as if they have nothing to lose. I mean, it cant get any worse for us than in our last meeting right? RIGHT?! (this is me trying to be optimistic).

Geno Atkins is a beast. No bones about it, but Wilfork is a different kind of beast. If Vince can do what he did against you guys the first time, it will be tough for that O to do what they thrive doing. However, Vince has been isolated in the biggest games and others have been unable to win their matchups. It's not our defenses ability to make the open field play as much as it is to win the battle in the trenches and not let it get to the open field.

It was strange. The first two plays against us (though one was called back), Foster ran for 15 yards a piece. After that, it's almost like BB saw what was wrong and made the adjustment. Any insight from the other side on what was going on with that o-line that game?

***TruthSeeker*** · 01-07-2013, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BradyManny

How everyone is so certain we'll beat a team of comparable talent is beyond me.

Do I think the likelihood that we execute well enough to win is high? Yes. But this dismissive attitude towards the Texans is surprising. They've been one of the best teams in the league for two years. They have one of the best core group of young players in the league.

All it takes to win or lose any game against a good opponent is a play or two here and there. If Patriot fans have not learned that by now, both in our favor and then much to our dismay, I'm not sure what they've been watching the past decade.

The Texans have played mediocre football for a full 8 games now. I think the talent level is irrelevant; the level of football being played is what we should strongly consider.

The Patriots have a good run defense and are a disciplined team. These two strengths negate two of the Texans primary weapons on offense (running game and play action).

The Texans are a very favorable match-up for the Patriots as Schaub is not likely to beat you with his arm and the Patriots have been susceptible against the pass. On the other hand, Tom Brady's quick decision making and release proved vital in helping to reduce the impact of J J Watt and keep drives alive. I'm not anxious at all (but then again, it's not time for the kickoff.

)

IllegalContact · 01-07-2013, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeymourTrophies

Geno Atkins is a beast. No bones about it, but Wilfork is a different kind of beast. If Vince can do what he did against you guys the first time, it will be tough for that O to do what they thrive doing. However, Vince has been isolated in the biggest games and others have been unable to win their matchups. It's not our defenses ability to make the open field play as much as it is to win the battle in the trenches and not let it get to the open field.

It was strange. The first two plays against us (though one was called back), Foster ran for 15 yards a piece. After that, it's almost like BB saw what was wrong and made the adjustment. Any insight from the other side on what was going on with that o-line that game?

BB called a time out less than a minute into the game and that was that.....the ravens had zero success in isolating wilfork in the AFCC last year.

TexasTradition · 01-07-2013, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IllegalContact

james is a 2 down LB.......he is useless in the passing game......at least there was a little coverage with dobbins and sharpton.

geno atkins? really? is he anything like vince wilfork? LMAO

it can get worse......just ask the rams.......and the colts.....and the jets.....and the bills.....and the dolphins......it can get worse.

the pats have had a history of doing that to wade phillips' defenses

Like I said, BOTH Dobbins and James are useless in the passing game AND against the run. While there is a drop off in athletic ability, James at least has the experience playing for Phillips in Dallas and calls a better game in the middle. Neither are game changers and the liability is there regardless who plays in place of Cushing. Our ILB position has been destroyed by injuries this year.

Cush is an absolute BEAST and we are a different team with him on the field. With him, we had a chance. We dominated offenses and his loss was when deep down inside I knew our chance at a real run was over. It hurt bad:

Brian Cushing Highlights - YouTube

And did you really just LOL @ Geno Atkins??? The dude is one of THE best DTs in the game today.

Never said he was better than Vince, but was merely pointing out that it was still progress and unexpected after the way we have been running the ball recently. But again, that had alot to do with Foster making the cinci LBs look silly. Geno still had a strong game but he wasnt as much of a factor as I was expecting.

How we handle Vince will be HUGE in this game. Historically, our undersized but athletic line has had trouble with stout DTs as we saw in our last matchup. I expect Vince to do more of the same this week. But will he have as great of a game as he had last time? PFF shows that was by far his best game of the year against us and will be a major focus for us in slowing him down a little like we did against Atkins and Cincy. Easier said than done I know.

We are going to have to come up with something new to get Schaub into a rythym. What that is I dont know, but we will have to be quick and precise in our passing game. Schaub missed Foster wide open for big gains a couple of times. We must get him involved in the passing game along with utilizing BOTH our TEs this time around.

TexasTradition · 01-07-2013, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeymourTrophies

It was strange. The first two plays against us (though one was called back), Foster ran for 15 yards a piece. After that, it's almost like BB saw what was wrong and made the adjustment. Any insight from the other side on what was going on with that o-line that game?

With us in the middle of revamping our Right side of the line we lost projected starter Rashad Butler at RT for the year early on. The right side of the line is a weakness as it takes a long time to gel in this zone blocking scheme. So basically teams started loading up on our left side (our strength), and pay zero attention to the right side, thus shutting down the run game, which makes us even more predictable, limits play action, and even more easier to handle without 2nd TE Garret Graham in the lineup... Who was out for our first matchup. I was distraught when he was ruled out the first time, because I knew how important he was. Will be interesting to see how having him back will help in both facets. He will allow us to open up our playbook to its full capacity this time. (Again, this is me trying to be optimistic)

SeymourTrophies · 01-07-2013, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IllegalContact

BB called a time out less than a minute into the game and that was that.....the ravens had zero success in isolating wilfork in the AFCC last year.

The Giants had lots though. It can be done.

True story though, Matt Birk probably had nightmares about Vince last offseason.

patfanken · 01-07-2013, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TexasTradition

With us in the middle of revamping our Right side of the line we lost projected starter Rashad Butler at RT for the year early on. The right side of the line is a weakness as it takes a long time to gel in this zone blocking scheme. So basically teams started loading up on our left side (our strength), and pay zero attention to the right side, thus shutting down the run game, which makes us even more predictable, limits play action, and even more easier to handle without 2nd TE Garret Graham in the lineup... Who was out for our first matchup. I was distraught when he was ruled out the first time, because I knew how important he was. Will be interesting to see how having him back will help in both facets. He will allow us to open up our playbook to its full capacity this time. (Again, this is me trying to be optimistic)

Still waiting for some Texan fan feedback on whether we are likely to see something different from Wade Phillips on defense this time around?

As to the rest of your comments. Having your 2nd TE will be a help I'm sure, but don't you think that it will be vastly outweighed by the addition of the best TE in the game to and offense that put up 42 points on what was then, the best defense in the league?

I think last time, without Gronk, the Wade tried to take Welker out of the game and did a relatively decent job of it (3/53yds) However Lloyd showed he can beat your man coverage (9/94yds) and the 8 catches by Hernandez proved your point about your LB's inability to cover. The addition of Gronk not only multiplies your defensive problems, it probably will open up more opportunities for Wekler,

The other thing I took from the Cinci game was that BJGE ran for a 6.6ypc clip. We know and love BJGE, but he's definitely NOT a 6ypc kind of guy. I think Cinci made a big mistake not giving him the ball more (only 11 carries).

Granted the Texans did a great job vs the Cinci offense, but the Pats OL is light years better than the Cinci one. Steven Ridley has been an upgrade over BJGE, and any comparison of Andy Dalton to Tom Brady is down right laughable. Finally the Pats crowd is pretty knowledgeable and Brady will have full reign to communicate with his team as they run their offense - fast or slow. Matt Shaub won't have the same luxury.

At any rate, I look forward to your answer to my question

***shmessy*** · 01-07-2013, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patfanken

However Lloyd showed he can beat your man coverage (9/94yds) and the 8 catches by Hernandez proved your point about your LB's inability to cover. The addition of Gronk not only multiplies your defensive problems, it probably will open up more opportunities for Wekler,

In all fairness, Ball was out and IIRC Joseph was a gimpy gametime decision. Their secondary is in better shape this Sunday.

TexasTradition · 01-07-2013, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patfanken

Still waiting for some Texan fan feedback on whether we are likely to see something different from Wade Phillips on defense this time around?

As to the rest of your comments. Having your 2nd TE will be a help I'm sure, but don't you think that it will be vastly outweighed by the addition of the best TE in the game to and offense that put up 42 points on what was then, the best defense in the league?

I think last time, without Gronk, the Wade tried to take Welker out of the game and did a relatively decent job of it (3/53yds) However Lloyd showed he can beat your man coverage (9/94yds) and the 8 catches by Hernandez proved your point about your LB's inability to cover. The addition of Gronk not only multiplies your defensive problems, it probably will open up more opportunities for Wekler,

The other thing I took from the Cinci game was that BJGE ran for a 6.6ypc clip. We know and love BJGE, but he's definitely NOT a 6ypc kind of guy. I think Cinci made a big mistake not giving him the ball more (only 11 carries).

Granted the Texans did a great job vs the Cinci offense, but the Pats OL is light years better than the Cinci one. Steven Ridley has been an upgrade over BJGE, and any comparison of Andy Dalton to Tom Brady is down right laughable. Finally the Pats crowd is pretty knowledgeable and Brady will have full reign to communicate with his team as they run their offense - fast or slow. Matt Shaub won't have the same luxury.

At any rate, I look forward to your answer to my question

To be honest I am not sure how Phillips will approach this game. What I do know is the big plays killed us, the offense stalled, and you jumped out to a big lead quickly. We do not play well from behind at all. Tho we did have some spells where we forced a few 3 and outs, and did not take advantage. Gronk will obviously only make things more difficult.

But my point with Graham is this. We are going to have to sustain more long drives to win this game. Having the ability to use our bread and butter formations with Graham will put us in a better position this time around to have a chance to do that. Basically, controll the clock and keep your offense off the field as much as we can. The number of possessions yall had was unnacceptable. When we are on, we chew chew chew up the clock and in the past have eaten up what seems like entire quarters with methodical, effective drives. And they cannot end in FGs. Essentially, a better offense will have to be where our improved defense is found this time around.

Foster has played in 3 playoff games now, and has rushed for over 100 in each. He will at least need to get his yardage in the passing game this time around, and find a way to get to the second level consistently on first downs when he carries the rock. If he has a big game, and our TEs are blocking well, and getting open quickly, it will allow us to find AJ on key plays.