goheels22002

The 2012 franchise tag value was $10.6 million, so that's an indication of what Talib could look for in 2013 and beyond. I'm not sure he has a huge amount of leverage, but he could reasonably ask for $6 million/year which is what DeAngelo Hall makes.

AndyJohnson

Well, he isn't a top 5 corner, so the tag number isn't part of the consideration really.

goheels22002

Hall's number is in the bottom of the top ten where a bunch of pretty good cornerbacks are clustered in that $4 to $6 million range. Talib would appear to fit in that group from what we've seen. It's hard to judge how much the off-field gun play diminishes his value. My guess is that there would be a pretty healthy market for Talib.

AndyJohnson

Lets also not forget that he has been bad or missing in more games than he has been good since we got him.
The 3 games to glory are a big audition for Talib and whether or not he will be back.

robertweathers

I am at a complete loss as to why you think that I am trying to insult or belittle you. Not my intent whatsoever.I took post #402 as sarcastic remark and I responded directly at face value. If that was not your intent. Then it is a misunderstanding.

At a high-level, my point was that BB, Nick C and Floyd stack rank the talent on this team and best determine who the need in the fold badly short and long term. in my opinion, the Pats have determined that they need WW in the fold short term badly, but are unsure how badly they need him long-term. There are many reasons why he isn't and whether he should be signed long-term or not and i think what I just said is one of them.

Thats it and don't read any more into it than that.

__________________
“I'm not really concerned about the other 31 teams,” - Bill Belichick

"If a player has talent and doesn't succeed, that means that they either don't want to be successful or I have failed as a coach." - Bill Belichick

robertweathers

No. It is not. 4 year contracts are not the issue. Its the up-front money paid and the subsequential cap hit.

I don't think hes played as badly as you think. Hes and upgrade over McCourty and Arrington. Has he been a Revis-clone? No but I think hes been above average which is highly sought-after in this league.

When healthy, we clearly don't agree on Vollmer's worth.

I'll concede a bit here. If a player wins 2nd team all-pro and is #16 of all NFL lineman and Talib is in the top 10 in QB rating against year over year, etc and wins the NFL DB of the year award selected by the nfl alumni association, then i think that says hes a pretty damn good DB. Plus I've seen the guy play and I think hes good.

__________________
“I'm not really concerned about the other 31 teams,” - Bill Belichick

"If a player has talent and doesn't succeed, that means that they either don't want to be successful or I have failed as a coach." - Bill Belichick

robertweathers

As I was telling Andy, making the decision to pay Talib $6m per is a big one and I think the team and he needs some more time to determine of both parties are right for each other long-term. I think its possible but who knows...

__________________
“I'm not really concerned about the other 31 teams,” - Bill Belichick

"If a player has talent and doesn't succeed, that means that they either don't want to be successful or I have failed as a coach." - Bill Belichick

AndyJohnson

It doesnt matter. Thats what he costs, thats what players his age get, and he is invaluable to this team. Let me guess, next it will be let Brady go to save on the cap?



He has not at all been an upgrade over McCourty. He has helped the D by allowing McCourty to upgrade the safety position, but it is ridiculous to say Talib has played better at corner as a Patriot this season than McCourty, simply ridiculous.
I know there is a lot of hope for Talib to play well, but he has been awful in 2 games (remember everyone blamed the first one on rustiness) and has missed others. He has not been above average in any way, other than the hopes of fans. Yes, if healthy he can be, but that hasn't happened on the field consistently yet.

But health is the most important part of the equation. You can't pay or value a guy who has health issues as if they didn't exist.
I think we can agree that for the last 2 seasons Vollmer has been an average RT at best, and an unreliable one as well. Right?


Where do you get #16 of all NFL OL? Did you make that up?
And that was his best season ever and he hasn't played nearly as well in 2 years.


There is no such statistic and even the bogus ones don't put him there.


Many players have obscure awards, that doesnt mean they are one of the top 50 players in the league, especially 2 years, and many issues later.
Do we agree neither has ever made a probowl, meaning the peers and coaches have never had them in the top 100 in any season?


I didn't say he sucks, but top 50 is ridiculous, totally ridiculous.

Of course you won't find anyone anywhere arguing Welker is not in the top 50, and that is the less risky guy you are championing keeping these risky ones ahead of while at the same time ignoring the design of our offense, the best offense in the NFL, revolves around Welkers role.

AndyJohnson

Of course it is belittling to reduce the discussion about the value of Wes Welker to "I'm sure BB doesn't stand in the lockerroom saying we cant win without Welker" and the post you thought was sarcastic was not it was a response to you turning the discussion of the value of Wellker into 'well every player on the team has value too'. As I said and meant then, if you don't want to be realistic, lets just stop the conversation.

This is another example of your disingenuous approach.
We are discussing what we would do without knowing what the team will do, and you attempt to buoy your stance by saying you know what they think. You don't.

I'm not reading anything into it, I am reading and responding to exactly what you are saying.

supafly

What's ridiculous are the comments being made that Talib is easily the most highly sought after free agent CB, and the comments that liken his salary to the top tier CB's pacts of Carr and Finnegan at 5/50+ and 30 million guaranteed.

If someone would actually pay Talib 5/50 with almost 30 million guaranteed then shame on them. To me that's almost literally laughable.

I agree that he can make a much better case for himself by playing well over the course of the playoffs, and I also think that his value remains somewhat up in the air right now, but if anything it's a lot closer to that of a 6-7 million dollar CB, at least in my opinion.

He has helped at times, but Devin McCourty's safety play is the #1 reason that we were able to see this secondary gel down the stretch, and I also believe that Devin McCourty will be the one who gets the kind of money quotes that are being thrown around when he is up for FA after next season, certainly not Talib, and certainly not after a very small sample size where we haven't even seen anything all that significant in my opinion.

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Patiently waiting to defend the next "bubble" player in this summer's training camp.....