Bedard: Forget the Bills game...The Season Starts Now - Page 4 - New England Patriots Forums

PatsBoy12 · 11-12-2012, 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nekromantique

Kareem Jackson was pretty terrible until this year...guys can be coached up

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I'm pretty sure he's not the only one playing in the secondary. I get your point that guys can be coached up, but that secondary is pretty talented. Wade has more to play with in that respect.

Cassanova792 · 11-12-2012, 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DocHoliday

Uhuh.

And you know exactly which play the Bills would run? Let's say they line up with Spiller and/or Jackson wide. Pats go dime/nickel.

Then bring them both in the backfield and run.

What now?

Either way you lose if you react by pulling LB from coverage just to stop the pass. They'll run right over you

How would you lose when Spikes and Hightower are not dropping into coverage like i said but are instead focused on:
A. Going after the QB
B. Stopping the Run

PATRIOTSFANINPA · 11-12-2012, 12:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cassanova792

True but i am more worried about <insert ANY Quarterback's name here> than Ray Rice or Arian Foster. Our secondary cant stop no body.

If Talib comes as advertised it may free up one of the Safeties to double up on the other side where the scrub CB is and help on obvious passing downs.

Talib's performance will either help a lot or just a little,but he WILL help these other cruds out just by being on the field,I am sure some QBs who have faced Talib before,will respect his talents and not always challenge him like the other duds we have out there.

If I am a HC,OC or QB and am facing the Pats,I have no idea why any team in the league would not pass all day long and forget the run.....in fact it befuddles me why opposing QBs don't pass 40 times or more when it's well known that Patricia is not a fan of the blitz so pressure is not that much of a concern.

***Deus Irae*** · 11-12-2012, 01:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cassanova792

As for the linebackers you are absolutely right! They are poor in coverage (mainly Spikes) yet we still drop them into coverage, they are inconsistent on the 4 man rush, yet we hardly blitz. How can you NOT blame coaching and scheme?

Doc Holiday already touched on part of this. I'll point out the other part, and it's something that's been pointed out seemingly a million times.

Bill Belichick believes that the worst thing you can do is give up the 50+ yard TD. As a result, he schemes to stop the 50+ yard TD. When you've got the kind of poor pass defending talent this team has, that means you will generally need to keep as many people in coverage as is possible. Now, you may not like that style, but it got the team to the Super Bowl last season, so I'll take it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cassanova792

As far as the broncos you are nitpicking scores, i can show you far more games where Tim Tebow was just horrendous yet lucky then games where he played average enough to win. He did have a good game against the Steelers though. Tim Tebow we all know is hardly an aerial threat that you are making him out to be he was just fortunate enough to be on a talented Broncos team.

I'm not nitpicking scores, at all. You were denigrating the Broncos in order to minimize what the Patriots did in that playoff game. I simply showed your argument to be a poor one by pointing out what you were ignoring.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cassanova792

We can go on all night about whether it is coaching or talent. It is probably both, honestly I could care less as long as its fixed. They brought in Talib to bring in some talent, great, but how bout we try something new from our coaches like blitzing instead of dropping our talented but slow LB's into coverage eh? It's pretty obvious we have a very vanilla easy to read defense, which does nothing to help our porous secondary if the QB has all day to read and throw.

We could go on all night, and I'm sure that the coaching isn't perfect, since nothing is, but the bottom line is that it's a talent problem and not a coaching issue, and all the clamoring for "more blitzing!" isn't going to change that. The reality is that the great defense of the early 2000s disappeared with the defensive talent of the early 2000s. The poor defensive drafting and very spotty defensive free agent acquisitions, from 2007-2009, put the defense into a significant decline, and the team has taken a long time to rebuild a former strength. The team is currently about 1 DE, 1 pass defending LB, multiple DBs, some experience/seasoning, and maybe a return to the 3-4 base away from being a top tier defense. Hopefully, Talib will help with one of the DB spots.

The team has gone to 5 Super Bowls in 10 years, so let's stop with the "Scheme can't win!" and "these coaches suck!" crap, since it obviously can win, and the coaching has pretty obviously been high end during this run. Let's just stay focused on the real problem, which has been talent acquisition on the defensive side of the ball.

***MoLewisrocks*** · 11-12-2012, 08:01 AM

Another Bedard piece where he suggests that it may be time to rethink scheme in light of personnel. In other words best play to the strength of the hand you've dealt yourself. Oddly it's back to the wall singular playmaking that is saving the scheme's ass in these games.

5 takeaways from the Patriots-Bills game - Extra Points - Boston.com

Nehalem · 11-12-2012, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deus Irae

We could go on all night, and I'm sure that the coaching isn't perfect, since nothing is, but the bottom line is that it's a talent problem and not a coaching issue, and all the clamoring for "more blitzing!" isn't going to change that. The reality is that the great defense of the early 2000s disappeared with the defensive talent of the early 2000s. The poor defensive drafting and very spotty defensive free agent acquisitions, from 2007-2009, put the defense into a significant decline, and the team has taken a long time to rebuild a former strength. The team is currently about 1 DE, 1 pass defending LB, multiple DBs, some experience/seasoning, and maybe a return to the 3-4 base away from being a top tier defense. Hopefully, Talib will help with one of the DB spots.

How is that any different than the needs of the 2010 defense?

Except for the fact that we just used a 1st round pick on a DE and LB. And 2 2nd round picks on our secondary which is quite possibly worse.

That is why people continue to be upset about the defense and blaming coaching.

aluminum seats · 11-12-2012, 08:21 AM

Satisfying to see a sharp football observer like Bedard calling out the continued poor secondary coaching. As he noted before, Belichick will hopefully just go ahead and do the secondary's job for them the rest of the way, in which case we'll likely see improvement again, like last year.

In the offseason, Belichick, a great coach who has overseen great coaching this decade, will likely make some overdue changes.

Luther · 11-12-2012, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cassanova792

FINALLY, THANK YOU!

Mike Reiss is also calling out the Patriots defensive coaching, play calling and scheme. We need more writers to push this, hopefully just maybe BB will take notice and change things defensively a bit or hopefully in our case, a lot!

Bottom line is: Patricia needs to get demoted back to LB coach or fired entirely,

Has BB demoted or fired any coordinators ever?

TommyBrady12 · 11-12-2012, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cassanova792

Our defense is one of the best and most opportunistic in takeaways in the league, same as last year. We have a very formidable front 7, yet somehow we are one of the worst defenses in the league. This tells me we have talent, scheme is the issue and a coach like Wade can absolutely turn this defense around, more so than Patricia.

the defense was fine in the first half yesterday, only giving up 10 points. They did a good job for the most part in the first half of shutting down Spiller/Jackson. For some reason the scheme the patriots were using in the second half was not working. At stretches this year the defense has looked really good.

TommyBrady12 · 11-12-2012, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cassanova792

Obviously not, Mayo should be the only one dropping into coverage and Hightower occasionally. Spikes and Hightower for the most part should just strictly go after the QB and focus on stopping the run. Spikes has no business dropping into coverage, EVER, he is far too slow to cover and is a liability. Hightower, on the other hand can do both. He has the speed to cover but i think he can be very very good at going after the QB (just check his film when he was in college). The problem is our current scheme doesn't utilize to our LB'ers strengths.

i'm not sure i understand this logic. Spikes was one of the main reasons we were in the super bowl last year, dropping into coverage in the AFCCG and intercepting Flacco. Mayo gave up the touch down to Cruz in the Super Bowl dropping into coverage, and yet you want Spikes to not drop back and Mayo to play coverage? Look, the bottom line is none of our linebackers are great in coverage.