patsfaninpittsburgh

No they don't.

Where are you coming up with that?

Kid~Brady

Exactly, turnovers are a portion of the stats.

I'm talking solid balance with offense and defense combined. Steelers hands down. Trust me, I don't like saying it either.

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patsfaninpittsburgh

Pittsburgh offense is balanced. They are explosive.

Too bad they don't score points otherwise they would be great.

ivanvamp

I didn't say that. I said their offense and defense are almost equally as good (according to this SRS rating, which takes into account a lot of things, including strength of opponent).

Here are traditional rankings for the Ravens' D and O:

Offense: #13 points, #15 yards (so it is better than average)
Defense: #3 points, #3 yards (so it is great)

But where SRS makes its money is that it considers strength of opponent. Here are the rankings of their opponents:

Offense (so their opponents' defensive rankings):
Pit - #2 pts, #1 yds
Ten - #7 pts, #17 yds
StL - #24 pts, #21 yds
NYJ - #22 pts, #7 yds
Hou - #4 pts, #2 yds
Jax - #10 pts, #5 yds
Ari - #17 pts, #19 yds
Pit - #2 pts, #1 yds
Sea - #5 pts, #9 yds
Cin - #9 pts, #6 yds
SF - #1 pts, #4 yds
Cle - #6 pts, #10 yds
Ind - #30 pts, #27 yds
SD - #23 pts, #11 yds
Cle - #6 pts, #10 yds
AVG - 11.2 pts, 10.0 yds

Defense (so their opponents' offensive rankings):
Pit - #20 pts, #11 yds
Ten - #23 pts, #17 yds
StL - #32 pts, #31 yds
NYJ - #9 pts, #27 yds
Hou - #10 pts, #12 yds
Jax - #29 pts, #32 yds
Ari - #25 pts, #23 yds
Pit - #20 pts, #11 yds
Sea - #24 pts, #28 yds
Cin - #18 pts, #24 yds
SF - #15 pts, #26 yds
Cle - #30 pts, #29 yds
Ind - #28 pts, #30 yds
SD - #6 pts, #6 yds
Cle - #30 pts, #29 yds
AVG - 20.3 pts, 22.4 yds

Clearly, they have played teams with FAR better defenses than offenses, almost in every case (SD being the real exception). So they have an above average offense that has done scored the 13th most points in the league against probably the hardest slate of defenses any team in the league has had to face. That means they actually have a pretty darned good offense. And their defense has been very good, but it's been against one of the weakest slates of offenses that any team in the league has had to face.

There are, then, no "complete" teams in the league, if you have to be great at both offense and defense. Baltimore is very good on D and, as it turns out, very good on O as well. To me, then, they're the most balanced, and maybe the most complete (though I still give it to GB because their defense is above average and their offense is unreal).

Texxx

Year after year of watching teams with great defenses over achieve. The Steelers have gone to 3 SB's in this decade with great defenses. The Ravens have been up there almost every year as well, barely getting beat by the Steelers mainly because Ben is on the Steelers and not the Ravens.

Ever notice the difference between those Patriot teams that won the SB. They had some of the best defenses in the league in those years. Is it really a coincidence that they haven't won one since than even with the best offense of all time?? When the Pats won their first SB?? Who did they beat?? That great offense of the Rams is who they beat. Again, the team with the great defense and average offense won that game. Of course NE had Brady, but still.

There have been two out of three teams that have won the SB in this last decade alone off of straight defense in the Ravens, Bucs, and the Bears who ended up losing to the Colts where Manning finally got his ring.

Out of all of those great years of Manning's offensive juggernut teams, he only has one ring and what was the main team that he kept losing to in the playoffs?? The Pats who had much better defense.

That great Jets defense beat that great Patriots offense last season as well.


Look at the Saints who had great offensive teams for years, but they didn't win the SB and start making the playoffs every year until they built a good defense behind it.


I think those are enough examples to illustrate my point.

Mogamedogz

Pitt and it isnt close.

If Pig Ben is healthy, they SHOULD win it all.

ivanvamp

Here are the offensive and defensive rankings of every SB participant since the Pats/Rams SB:

Team: Off (scoring rank, yds rank, oSRS); Def (scoring rank, yds rank, dSRS)

2001:
NE: Off (6, 19, 1.2); Def (6, 24, 3.1) - W
StL: Off (1, 1, 10.4); Def (7, 3, 2.9) - L

2002:
TB: Off (18, 24, -1.0); Def (1, 1, 9.8) - W
Oak: Off (2, 1, 6.3); Def (6, 11, 4.3) - L

2003:
NE: Off (12, 17, 2.1); Def (1, 7, 4.9) - W
Car: Off (15, 16, -1.5); Def (10, 8, 0.6) - L

2004:
NE: Off (4, 7, 6.3); Def (2, 9, 6.5) - W
Phi: Off (8, 9, 2.0); Def (2, 10, 3.5) - L

2005:
Pit: Off (9, 15, 3.8); Def (3, 4, 4.0) - W
Sea: Off (1, 2, 5.8); Def (7, 16, 3.4) - L

2006:
Ind: Off (2, 3, 6.9); Def (23, 21, -1.1) - W
Chi: Off (2, 15, 4.9); Def (3, 5, 3.0) - L

2007:
NE: Off (1, 1, 15.9); Def (4, 4, 4.2) - L
NYG: Off (14, 16, 2.8); Def (17, 7, 0.4) - W

2008:
Pit: Off (20, 22, 1.6); Def (1, 1, 8.2) - W
Ari: Off (3, 4, 4.1); Def (28, 19, -6.0) - L

2009:
Ind: Off (7, 9, 4.4); Def (8, 18, 1.5) - L
NO: Off (1, 1, 11.2); Def (20, 25, -0.5) - W

2010:
Pit: Off (12, 14, 2.5); Def (1, 2, 7.7) - L
GB: Off (10, 9, 3.1); Def (2, 5, 7.9) - W

Average Rankings:
- SB winners: Off (9.6, 13.3, 3.8); Def (7.6, 10.4, 4.3)
- SB losers: Off (5.2, 7.2, 5.5); Def (7.6, 9.6, 2.5)

Interesting notes:
- 10 of the 20 SB teams had an "upper level" offense (4.0 or higher SRS).
- 8 of the 20 SB teams had an "upper level" defense (4.0 or higher SRS).
- Only 2 of 20 SB teams had an oSRS of less than 0.0 (TB, Car). Only 3 of 20 SB teams had a dSRS of less than 0.0 (Ind, Ari, NO).
- Only twice in 10 years has a top 3 scoring offense won the SB (Ind, NO).
- 6 times in 10 years a top 3 scoring offense has lost the SB (StL, Oak, Sea, Chi, NE, Ari).
- 6 times in 10 years a top 3 scoring defense has won the SB (TB, NE, NE, Pit, Pit, GB).
- Only 3 times in 10 years has a top 3 scoring defense lost the SB (Chi, Pit).
- 3 times the #1 yardage offense has lost the SB (StL, Oak, NE); just one time has the #1 yardage offense won the SB (NO).
- 5 times in 10 years the team with the lower oSRS rating has won the SB (NE, TB, Pit, NYG, Pit)
- only 3 times in 10 years the team with the lower dSRS rating has won the SB (Ind, NYG, NO).
- 7 out of 10 SB winners had a higher dSRS than oSRS.

randomk1

Yet they are still the #1 D in yards and something like #2 in points allowed.

To me turnovers are mostly a mistake by the other team and you can't count on turnovers...see awesome 2010 NE D.

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Kid~Brady

Have to agree with this. I'd take a top ranked defense that forces more 3 and out's over a last ranked defense that thrives on turnovers anyday.

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randomk1

I wasn't bringing up as Baltimore as an example of a complete team. I think their O is average...now that i think on it maybe even below average. It all really depends on how good of a day Ray Rice is having.

And how the hell are you a complete team without a D ? The Chokeartists Colts of the past decade are a fine example of it.

Complete team - 04 pats.

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