Dowling Injury Woes Continue, Fletcher Remains Out - Page 10 - New England Patriots Forums

***RJB87*** · 10-27-2011, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaBruinz

The only problem is that you are misinformed. Dowling didn't miss a whole year.

Why does passing on Sheard and Reed look bad? They aren't playing in the same system as they would with the Pats. And Reed hasn't exactly been tearing it up for the Texans. In fact, the only reason he's getting playing time now is because of Williams going down with his season ending injury.

Oh sorry I stand corrected. He managed to start and finish a whole 2 games in the 2010 season at Virginia.

It's not all about the stat sheet y'know? Reed will progress and Sheard has played great both on and off the stat sheet. Also Cleveland's defensive line scheme isn't that much different than ours right now.

***DaBruinz*** · 10-27-2011, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darolyn72

Predictable pathetic responses. Not one of the responses by the Deus, Bauer and the other fanboys could refute my points. You guys make me laugh. You're just fanboys, maybe this website should be split up between people who ONLY want to say happy things and those intelligent fans who want to be objective. There isn't an ounce of objectivity from a majority of dissenting posts. You throw out insults like school yard children.

Where would that leave you? Certainly not in either category you mentioned. You haven't been objective since you started posing here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darolyn72

And who brought up the 2010 draft??? We're not talking about the 2010 draft. It was a great draft, ON OFFENSE. Plus, you don't debate a topic by bringing up another topic.

YOU brought it up with your claim that BB can't do anything outside the 1st round of a draft. He was on topic with what you posted.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darolyn72

Last 3 drafts - We had the four 2nd round picks draft, ok at best that draft was average, I guess you could say a trade turned into Gronk, but if they wanted Gronk they could have found a way to get him.

Two years ago great picks, solid draft, all on Offense. McCourty looked good, but he has been statistically the worst corner in the NFL this year. That being said, I think he turns it around.

Across the last 3 drafts, the Pats have had 9 2nd round picks. Those picks produced Chung, Butler, Brace, Vollmer, Cunningham, Spikes, Gronkowski, Dowling, and Vereen. The only BUST is Butler. 8 of 9 are still here. Chung, Vollmer, and Gronkowski are starters with Vollmer being an ALL-PRO. Spikes has shown signs of developing into a good to very good 2-down SILB. Brace showed glimpses of being a solid LDE before his injury. Cunningham is developing slowly. Vereen is stuck deep on the depth chart. Dowling, despite not seeing time in pre-season, beat out Bodden as a starting corner.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darolyn72

This year, Solder, Stupid trade, Injured player, two running backs who might be good, we'll see.

Why is it a stupid trade? Because you say so?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darolyn72

Bill made a decision in the best defensive draft in years, and that is proving out btw, to spend his draft capital on Dowling. It's been a bust. What is the only flaw on this team. Pass defense.

Watt, Fairley, Kerrigan, Liuget, Clayborn, Taylor, Heyward, Reed, Sheard, Ayers, all more impactful than No pick and Dowling.

There are a few problems with your list. First and foremost, you are ignoring that the Pats took Solder at 16. Second, it's well known that Solder wasn't going to be around at 24 for the Pats to take. So, that would mean the Pats would have to trade up twice (once from 16 and once from 24) to get some of the players on your list and still get Solder. And Solder filled a bigger need for LT than any of the players you mentioned. Fourth, You are assuming that the Pats could have traded up to get some of these players. You clearly didn't think about the probability that some of the teams (Texans/Lions) didn't want to trade.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darolyn72

The run to the Super Bowl begins now, as of right now this pick looks horrendous. If they win the Super Bowl and the Defense picks up, Bill cements himself as a great evaluator and coach. But for 4 years now he has been struggling trying to put together a middle of the road defense.

The claim that the Pats have been struggling to put together a "middle of the road defense" for 4 years isn't supported by reality. Unless they've changed it that Yards allowed wins games, not points..

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darolyn72

So DEUS...it has nothing to do with where they draft, it has to do with WHO they draft, and guys they draft on defense has not played up to or fit the system. Dowling however, just can't get on the damn field. To defend that is ignorant and stupid. You can't win the Dowling argument, he has been a HORRIFIC disappointment. It doesn't matter if he's healthy in 2012, they need him this season. So come to the table with facts not stupid crap, about trolls etc.

You're wrong. Where they draft has plenty to do with it. Because that determines who will be available when it's their time to draft. This isn't Madden where you can toss a pick and a ton of money at a team and they'll do a trade. This is reality.

You're also wrong in evaluating Dowling after only a few games. Especially when EVERY SINGLE coach, GM, draft pundit says that it takes a few years before you can properly evaluate players.

As for coming to the table with facts, you are the one who seems to be missing facts. You are the one making the assumptions. And, yes, you do seem to be trolling.

***DaBruinz*** · 10-27-2011, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RJB87

Oh sorry I stand corrected. He managed to start and finish a whole 2 games in the 2010 season at Virginia.

He played in 5 games in 2010. Just because he didn't "finish" 3 of them doesn't change that fact. That is different than what you claimed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RJB87

It's not all about the stat sheet y'know? Reed will progress and Sheard has played great both on and off the stat sheet. Also Cleveland's defensive line scheme isn't that much different than ours right now.

Cleveland plays a 4-3 single gap defense with almost no 3-4. The Pats play a hybrid 3-4/4-3. Claiming that the defenses aren't different is like claiming a Frigidaire is the same thing a Samsung because they are both refrigerators..

***Gwedd*** · 10-27-2011, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darolyn72

Don't be such Honks. What was the rationale in Vereen over Murray?

Murray played in a better conference had more TD, Yards and Receptions than Vereen in college.

One guy is a star, one guy is a benchwarmer. Also if they took Murray they would not have to have drafted Ridley.

The thing you Patriot honks don't get and its in another thread. Is with Bill's drafting its not an aberration its a trend. Get him out of the 1st round and he misses all the time. He's better with undrafted players than with drafted players. Tate over Wallace is another example. Tate had an ACL injury in college. But yet they took him anyway.

Good comparision with Belichick and Theo when it comes to Free Agency and post first round draft picks. Theo's free agents probably cost the Sox two championships and Bill's poor drafting since 2006 has cost them 2 titles MINIMUM.

I see that it isn't good enough to have to deal with trolls from other teams showing up on our boards. Now we have an alleged home-grown troll.

I wonder what bridge he lives under?

***DaBruinz*** · 10-27-2011, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hodgey

Really, so all this pontificating by posters is fact? My fault I thought we were offering opinions. As a frustrated fan its my opinion that a few more hits on the multiple second or third round picks the patriots have had over the past several years would have earned the fan base a couple more trophies. Its also my opinion if you cant do it via the draft, maybe by trade is not a bad option. We have cap space and draft picks, and I do respect your opinion, in your opinion would Jared Allen or Peppers or the like make a difference in the ultimate outcome?

You really shouldn't use big words that you have no idea what they mean. No one was "pontificating".

You are the one who seemed to want some actual discourse, yet you offered up nothing but BS. You offered up no facts for people to contest. So, how can people have a debate with you.

Your contentions have no basis in actual reality. Because, what someone like yourself who insists on using 20/20 hindsight forgets is that, once you make a change to reality, everything else after that change will be different and there is no possible way to predict what that outcome will be.

The problem with you talking about Jared Allen or Julius Peppers is that neither were available at the trade deadline. Not to mention that it's unlikely that either the Bears or the Vikings have the cap space to take the hit of the pro-rated signing bonuses had they traded away Peppers or Allen.

***DaBruinz*** · 10-27-2011, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hodgey

Game changers on the BB watch imho = Brady(1 lombardi away from being the greatest game changer of all time) Seymour, Deion, jury is still out on our current TE's.

So, what you are saying is that you really don't know what a game changer really is. OK. Good to know..

Just an FYI, Deion Branch was never a game changer.

BTW, Bruschi falls under the BB watch because BB was the DC when Bruschi was drafted and it was under BB that Bruschi had his greatest successes.

Mayo is becoming a game changer. McCourty, who is only a sophmore, could develop into a game changer.

***RJB87*** · 10-27-2011, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaBruinz

He played in 5 games in 2010. Just because he didn't "finish" 3 of them doesn't change that fact. That is different than what you claimed.

Cleveland plays a 4-3 single gap defense with almost no 3-4. The Pats play a hybrid 3-4/4-3. Claiming that the defenses aren't different is like claiming a Frigidaire is the same thing a Samsung because they are both refrigerators..

And in those 3 games he didn't finish he had 0 tackles so I'm assuming he went out pretty early.

Piss poor analogy, pal. In past years I would agree Cleveland's defense isn't like ours. But this year it is more similar.

A little lesson for you since you're so smart. Wanna know how Jauron got his start in the league? As an Assistant under Hank Bullough. Being as smart as you are you're probably aware we use a Fairbanks-Bullough defensive scheme. He was also on one of Tom Coughlin's coaching staffs and I hope I don't need to explain how that plays into this. But for you I will, Belichick and Coughlin come from the same Parcells coaching tree which used the exact same Fairbanks-Bullough defensive scheme that we use.

Don't try and school me, pal. I've been around the block and back.

***DaBruinz*** · 10-27-2011, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D-Money

Its nice to be 5-1 but this team has to improve in lots of areas.Especially on defense.I am not sold yet.

I would agree they need to improve in kick coverage and kick returns and on their pass coverage and a tad on the pass rush. Beyond that, I don't see "LOTS OF AREAS" that need improvement..

***DaBruinz*** · 10-27-2011, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hodgey

Sports have long since past me. I spend my days now running a successful business. Perhaps you should consider a career as a professional message board poster.

How do you know a person has lost an argument? They take backhanded shots at people regarding their post counts. Nice job.

***shmessy*** · 10-27-2011, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hodgey

Game changers on the BB watch imho = Brady(1 lombardi away from being the greatest game changer of all time) Seymour, Deion, jury is still out on our current TE's.

If you're attention is all wrapped up in game changers, then you don't know one thing about what makes the New England Patriots the pre-eminent NFL franchise of the 21st century.

11 straight years of clear cut example after example and some dullards still don't comprehend what makes the Patriots stand apart.

Other teams collect stars. The Patriots have built and maintained a muti-generational (NFL-wise) ongoing machine.

Of course, even after reading that you still won't be able to comprehend that simple fact.