bbabin

VERY impressive. I think it would be very hard for anyone to make logical arguments against what that website says. You did a very good job staying away from "Not fair, Patriots rule"/"Beli-cheat sucks" and focused on the facts available. Awesome!

I also think that this should be sent to major media outlets. It would be interesting to hear the responses you get from people in sportswriting.

fgssand

I heard from Ian though the help of Ponyexpress....he is working to help.

Anybody can feel free to send the word aboujt the site to media people far and wide.

I did have a list of about 20 or so media folks and have forwarded.

If things go poorly tomorrow, we are going to need this more than ever.

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JoeSixPat

Nice job - and nicely timed with the Walsh meeting set for tomorrow.

We've obviously got the facts on our side... with Mike Florio now allowing readers to post comments many Patsfans are able to address misinformation among the media and fans directly in a well-read national forum as well.

Frankly it's embarrassing that so few members of the media have actually read the rule they claim to know so much about, but clearly that's the case as it's news to nearly everyone that not only is taping signals not prohibited, it is allowed and continues to be allowed even today, post-2006 memo and post-Spygate.

If taping signals were wrong the NFL would prohibit it outright. As it stands its only a question of WHERE the filming takes place - not whether filming takes place.

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NYCPatsFan

Awesome!! Thanks a lot Pats'Va and fgssand! You guys are amazing!

And another thanks to the fan who set up the website!

Can we set this as a sticky so that we can have suggestions and contributions on how to make the cameragate site more effective?

upstater1

Thank you PinVa.

Just one further note.

If anyone has the videotape of the night game against the Chargers, I suggest they send it to PinVA for viewing because the CORE of this issue rests with Goodell's interview with Bob Costas before the game.

As a matter of fact, it may be possible to find a transcript of the interview on NBC's website.

EDIT: video of the interview can be found here: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20891188/

The key for me is this:
Costas asks, How does the NFL plan to police the league from teams using hi-technology to spy (Costas specifically refers to hi-powered binoculars with recording capability which allow you to "spy" from any seat in the stadium).

Goodell responds: "This was not hi-technology, it was being done with a camera out in the open!"

And right there we have the crux of it. The NFL can't police this at all. What the NFL is really worried about in the end is mere perception. This is all part of the game, but the NFL wants the illusion to be there that football players are simply executing a gameplan delivered far in advance. They don't want us to see the gears that are at work ALWAYS in creating the product that's put out on the field.

Goodell reveals here that his whole entire policy is a SHAM.

PatFaninVA wrote an excellent contexted piece on all the ways that teams get that edge. Well, here is proof that the commissioner fully realizes that what the Patriots did is not abnormal. He also realizes that there is no way the league can police these things to the letter of the law. Instead, the Commissioner simply took an idiosyncratic and inconsistent approach to the Estrella incident in order to make a point about the league's perception. That's it. I take this as Goodell's admission that the whole thing is really just based on perception rather than any rule. The league pretty much admitted there are no rules when it ignored Mangini's admission of taping the Patriots. The league expressly stated you can BREAK the rules when you have permission. The Patriots denied they gave permission. The league made this statement after CAMERGATE broke. Essentially, the league has implied that all Estrella needed to say in order to be left off the hook is that he was given permission by someone on the Jets staff. It wouldn't have mattered whether that permission was given or not since the league did not take into account the Patriots' statement that they did not give the Jets permission.

ctpatsfan77

If I may make two suggestions:

(1) When you mention the document in the opening paragraphs, you should put a link right then and there.

(2) While the qui bene? reference is nice, it might be better to just skip the Latin.

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NCpatriot

An amazing website with a lot of amazing information. I plan on showing it to all logical non-pats fans in hopes that a few people realize the truths of the situation and become a little more enlightened.

Fantastic job.

PonyExpress

I disagree about the Latin. A high brow tone flatters the intended audience, a bunch of self-important writers. It also distinguishes PFinVa from the rantings and ravings of message board whores like myself.

ALP

not bad gentlemen, not bad at all

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Then I moved away and they haven't won since

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PatsFanInVa

LOL first of all, Pony is being self-deprecating and gracious... I am hoping the "high brow" tone doesn't occur too often in the piece... but I'll take the gracious Mr. Express' excuse and keep qui bene unless everybody has the same reaction. Again, it IS true that this site is aimed to the media whores. Secondly I am pretty sure Pony is also the person who set me straight on several of the points these fact sheets cover.

Frank (Fgssand) has had amazing contacts throughout this process, bringing to life the actual contact with the people who should be reading this, and "making rain" in terms of knowing the right contacts and the right channels, and using them. He'll also be the public face/voice of the effort.

A tremendous thanks should also go to Wahwho, AKA John. He took on the hosting when my web-unsavvy mind hit the old brick wall, worked with us to troubleshoot a couple of obstacles, and got the actual webby work done quickly, attractively, and accurately.

Thanks too to all who worked on a "fact combing" thread here on PatsFans that served as our raw material. (PS, the Goodell interview from the Chargers game was in that thread or it was sent to me separately... I will have another look and possibly PM the earlier poster urging that we use it.)

I am still looking over the site too... guys please keep the suggestions coming. It's quite possible we'll have a whole other course to pursue tomorrow evening... but for now I think this is a useful first step to have public.

Everybody who has done work to make these few pages come to light did it on their own time, and I thank every one of you guys. (And of course, Ian, without whose work I would be in the hinterlands connecting every few weeks with another Pats fan, rather than daily.)

PFnV