Did anyone notice McCourty playing RCB at one point yesterday? - New England Patriots Forums

supafly · 09-20-2011, 05:38 AM

Now, before anyone jumps on me--yes, I am well aware that we do not ever change the LCB/RCB positioning, but I did notice McCourty at RCB yesterday.

McCourty was indeed lined up on the right side of the field at one point (Bodden's usual spot), and is obviously normally a LCB.

I am not sure if it has anything to do with Bodden's rumored benching of a series (or several plays), or whatever---but I definitely noticed it. I am guessing that it was not meant to be specific coverage based scheming, unless for some reason the addition of Dowling into the mix has changed anything up?

Strangely enough, both Bodden and McCourty have normally been referred to as specific LCB (DMcC) and RCB (Bodden) positions for all of last yr as profootballreference.com. They have them listed there for all of last yr, while BOTH are no longer assigned specific positions for 2011. They are just listed as the standard "CB." Not that I am saying that is the tell-all sign, but I do find it interesting nonetheless.

The only reason I bring up the PFR.com aspect, is because I initally noticed it yesterday during the game, so I decided to look it up. When I found that, it became ever weirder to me. My question is, for those of you who have watching a DVR replay, do you see anything to confirm this? I believe that it was in the 2nd half at some point, but due to the adrenaline and the energy of the game, I really did not give it my full attn.

Leigh Bodden NFL & AFL Football Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com

(You'll find the same exact scenario for DMcC if you enter his name in the top of the page at the right side. Both are no longer listed as having specific right/left positioning for 2011, and as you can see there have been yrs where Bodden was not assigned a R/L--although they were some time ago.)

There's always the possibility that I am either delusional or simply hallucinating, which would not be a first-time issue....

***MoLewisrocks*** · 09-20-2011, 06:15 AM

First off, how other entities list them is of little significance. Secondly, just like we would never abandon the 3-4 as this teams base defense...things change - often based on personnel or (seasonal) situations. For example, Asante used to cry like a baby if he was asked to play anywhere but LCB (actually I think Philly now realizes he still does). His claim was he wasn't comfortable on the right side. Of course his discomfort may have been tied to the old #1/#2 significance attached to the L/R assignments and the fact that one used to pay significantly more... I think Bill is more inclined these days to play some man and let matchups dictate coverage.

I also think that one of the biggest problems this board grapples with is the idea that unless you shut every player or offense down there is a big problem with the your player/s or the coaching if not the team...

Triumph · 09-20-2011, 06:21 AM

Mcourty played RCB last season too.

supafly · 09-20-2011, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Triumph

Mcourty played RCB last season too.

So he played both positions at one point? Did he start off at RCB and play LCB after several games or something? I know that LCB was his regular spot all or most of the yr.

supafly · 09-20-2011, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoLewisrocks

First off, how other entities list them is of little significance. Secondly, just like we would never abandon the 3-4 as this teams base defense...things change - often based on personnel or (seasonal) situations. For example, Asante used to cry like a baby if he was asked to play anywhere but LCB (actually I think Philly now realizes he still does). His claim was he wasn't comfortable on the right side. Of course his discomfort may have been tied to the old #1/#2 significance attached to the L/R assignments and the fact that one used to pay significantly more... I think Bill is more inclined these days to play some man and let matchups dictate coverage.

I also think that one of the biggest problems this board grapples with is the idea that unless you shut every player or offense down there is a big problem with the your player/s or the coaching if not the team...

Well, like I clearly stated, I did not immediately start a thread due to this information. I noticed it during the game, and then did a bit of minor research. I wouldn't have looked it up if I did not see it/notice it.

I did find it interesting that they have both Bodden and McCourty as having specific R and L CB spots during their tenures here, up to last week. That is all I was saying as far as that point goes.

So, did you notice him at RCB then at any point during the game yesterday, or are you saying that--YES, you would not be surprised if Belichick started to move them around depending on specific matchups? (Which would obviously go against the grain as the high majority believes, due to both usually playing nothing but one side)

As far as the struggles of McCourty, I have been more than fair and resonable in my personal assessments of him. I don't think that it's rocket science to say that he has struggled in the pre-season and first 2 games so far. As far as this "he was matchup against 2 of the top WR's in the game" argument go--that's BS. That's going to happen almost every single week in this league, and is no different than any other game or season. If that's the defense that many are going to use, then I would imagine that they'll stick with that all yr when Marshall comes up again, when Maclin and DeSaun Jackson play, when Homles and Burress go up against him twice etc. Just about every single team has a true #1 WR.

I did not ask this question because I think it has specific relevance in McCourty or his overall performance, I asked because I wondered if Belichick was starting to match him up due to personnel matchups with certain WR's, which has not happened too much here, as they have normally stayed on one side or the other. Of course, as I said, it may have also had something to do with Bodden being out several plays in the 2nd half too, I don't know.

supafly · 09-20-2011, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoLewisrocks

I also think that one of the biggest problems this board grapples with is the idea that unless you shut every player or offense down there is a big problem with the your player/s or the coaching if not the team...

And I think that our message boards are probably the exact same as any other forum in regards to that situation.

When you set out to solve certain situations that have been an obvious plague, such as 3rd down conversion etc, pass defense etc, then you properly go out and allow the other team to march the ball up and down the field at will, and convert 10/12 third downs--there are going to be discussions about it.

I do not believe that people are nitpicking all that much. It's not like they're starting threads based on Gostkowski missing 2 FG's in the same game, or special teams threads based on someone returning a TD against us, they are discussing the perils of the pass defense, which has looked atrocious at times (to some, which is fair).

I don't think that there is as much chicken little effect as you possibly do, but that's not of much relevance overall anyway, as opinions are different. I do think that it is normal and natural for people to question the so-called changes that have been made, the continued draft picks that have not panned out at the secondary positions, the cuts/non-signings that have taken place at the safety position etc. If people didn't have opinions or question these moves after a 10/12 third down conversion rate, allowing 135 yards out of backfield/flat pass screens, and throwing the ball at will with no problem whatsoever on the secondary, there would be no forum in existence.

***MoLewisrocks*** · 09-20-2011, 10:01 AM

Just a cursory viewing of a highlight reel from 2010 showed him playing RCB against the Bears. I think he is our #1 CB and Bill will match him up to advantage. Every team does have a #1 WR. Once upon a time we had Reche Caldwell. Few teams have Vincent Jackson or Brandon Marshall. When teams face them they often have the luxury of playing with a safety over the top. Right this moment we don't have a lot of experienced or talented safties on the roster, so the corners as a unit are doing the best they can playing the hand they are being dealt scheme wise. McCourty was largely in position with solid coverage but he was covering elite WR's who had several inches on him and he wasn't getting much if any help. They elected this kid a captain. I'm not going to waste a lot of time worrying about him. Any more than I did about Mayo. Got enough other minutae to be concerned about... This defense overall is a work in progress. Fortunately the offense is way ahead of the curve, for the most part...and the defense is bending without bending over or breaking. Seems to be a trend of sorts around the league early this season.

supafly · 09-20-2011, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoLewisrocks

Just a cursory viewing of a highlight reel from 2010 showed him playing RCB against the Bears. I think he is our #1 CB and Bill will match him up to advantage. Every team does have a #1 WR. Once upon a time we had Reche Caldwell. Few teams have Vincent Jackson or Brandon Marshall. When teams face them they often have the luxury of playing with a safety over the top. Right this moment we don't have a lot of experienced or talented safties on the roster, so the corners as a unit are doing the best they can playing the hand they are being dealt scheme wise. McCourty was largely in position with solid coverage but he was covering elite WR's who had several inches on him and he wasn't getting much if any help. They elected this kid a captain. I'm not going to waste a lot of time worrying about him. Any more than I did about Mayo. Got enough other minutae to be concerned about... This defense overall is a work in progress. Fortunately the offense is way ahead of the curve, for the most part...and the defense is bending without bending over or breaking. Seems to be a trend of sorts around the league early this season.

Fair enough, as I certainly agree with the thoughts of him being in position, the problem being able to be corrected, and the lack of adequate safety help to all be factors. We will see how it moves forward, and hope for the best of course.

While you make a good point about few teams having a WR as good as Marshall or Jackson, we will have to see how he does against guys like Miles Austin and Dez Bryant, Mike Wallace and the younger kids, D.Jackson and Maclin, Holmes and Burress etc...those are the ones that tend to 'worry' me (if that's the correct term). The teams with more than one adequate #1 WR, and there are many of them. I do agree that Marshall and V.Jackson are some of the best WR's in the game, but many of those also have attributes that can be harmful to any CB without any safety help over the top.

Interesting that the moving of CB's around has been being done here for a while, as I did not immediately notice it until Sunday, and stupidly listened to the general consensus of the announcers and forum members that the NEP "never" switched CB positions up based on matchups. I think THAT is a serious mis-conception around here, and one that I myself, bought in to.

At any rate, you certainly answered the question, and I appreciate that very much Mo. Thank you.

***sbpatfan*** · 09-20-2011, 10:29 AM

Damn, you put more thought into what side McCourty plays than I did in the presentation I just gave.

***MoLewisrocks*** · 09-20-2011, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by supafly

Fair enough, as I certainly agree with the thoughts of him being in position, the problem being able to be corrected, and the lack of adequate safety help to all be factors. We will see how it moves forward, and hope for the best of course. While you make a good point about few teams having a WR as good as Marshall or Jackson, we will have to see how he does against guys like Miles Austin and Dez Bryant, Mike Wallace and the younger kids, D.Jackson and Maclin, Holmes and Burress etc...those are the ones that tend to 'worry' me (if that's the correct term). The teams with more than one adequate #1 WR, and there are many of them. I do agree that Marshall and V.Jackson are some of the best WR's in the game, but many of those also have attributes that can be harmful to any CB without any safety help over the top. Interesting that the moving of CB's around has been being done here for a while, as I did not immediately notice it until Sunday, and stupidly listened to the general consensus of the announcers and forum members that the NEP "never" switched CB positions up based on matchups. I think THAT is a serious mis-conception around here, and one that I myself, bought in to. At any rate, you certainly answered the question, and I appreciate that very much Mo. Thank you.

If you ask Ty Law he will tell you he played all over the place...and Peyton Manning for one can attest to that... Ty wanted to match up against the #1 WR as was his birthright, but Bill convinced him there was more than one way to be an impact player. Ty was shutdown in Man and ballhawk in zone and physical against the run or pass. He was the kind of do it all player the master of confusion just loved to manipulate. But it was his way and not the classic way. Stops are great, but you will never stop them all. Changes of possession are better... I think that is why he always puts more stock in pressures than sacks and claims they are over rated (unless of course they are strip sacks...

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