AndyJohnson

In yet another example of why it is so hard to really see the whole play on the TV view, after going back, I see something different in the D than I saw the first time thorugh.
They were definitely lining up in a 43 under alignment. The strongside DT was shaiding the outside of the G and the weakside DT shading the weakside of the C. The DEs were shading outside of the Ts. The SOLB was up on the line playing the TE. MLB was in the middle and the Wil was over the T area.
Watching the techniques (which by the way was made even more difficult by Jacksonville's frequency of trapping, combo blocks and misdirection) it was clear the weakside was playing 1gap technique, with the strongside showing 2gap techniques.
While the inside guys (DTs and MLB) made some plays they got abused on some big runs inside. This is still a work in progress if this is the scheme we are going to play, but Wilfork, Haynesworth and Mayo, vs anyone is a different story than the likes of Love, Richard, Weston, Cohen, Fletcher, et al, against Jvilles JV.

The Scrizz

I'm sorry, I broke down every friggin running play from drives 2 through 7 to show exactly how important and impressive the run D was in this game and all he can spit at me is 4 plays over and over again and then tries to say that Butler wasn't poor but the run D was.

Obviously passing is more prevalent than running in the NFL but if he can nit-pick on 4 run plays I can nit-pick back on pass plays.

AndyJohnson

No you really can't, because the pass defense was fantastic.
Look, its fine if you think allowing 4 running plays over 10 yards out of 23 qualifies as good run defense. I don't. I'm sure BB isn't signing the praises of that kind of performance today either.
4 plays were part of the 23. That is an extremely high rate of total failures by the front 7.

The Scrizz

Nope, I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying you can't take 4 run plays and use it to say that they played badly any more than I can take 10 pass plays to make the same point.

I have gone whacko, because you drive me whacko. I see in your last post though that now after insisting in 20 other posts that they 2-gapped, that maybe they played some under as well. Good for you.

Instead of trying to correct 10 different posters who are saying otherwise why don't you check and then respond?

I was wrong to compare passing yards and rushing yards because it's a stupid comparison. But my point wasn't to show that they were equal it was to show that 4 plays do not make a poor run D any more than giving up a few long passes means they played poor pass D.

You act like they were getting gashed all game on the run. They weren't. They controlled the line of scrimmage for almost the entire game and had a few breakdowns on draws.

They played excellent run D all game with a few bad runs defenses. That is the truth and if that is poor in your mind, then fine, they played poor run D.

The Scrizz

And the fact that they didn't just play good run D but dominant run D the rest of the game is meaningless? I would expect to see a few breakdowns from non-starters over the course of the 1st pre-season game. I saw them come out rusty, then dominate for the next 3 quarters. Then give up a few draws. Should they have been ready for the draw? Yep. were they? Nope? It doesn't change what I saw for the rest of the game.

And yes BB will find fault with the run D and guess what, he'll find fault with the pass D as well.

I;m sorry they didn't live up to the great Andy's standards. I'm sure they'll get over it. Maybe next week they'll play as good as Butler.

AndyJohnson

You have to judge the overall play. BB says that the 1st 10 yards belong to the front 7 and what happens after 10 is the secondary. That means 4 times in 23 plays there was a total failure by the front 7. It doesnt much matter what the rest of the plays were (and there were some bad on in there) but when better than 1 in 6 go for 10 plus, that is a serious problem.

This makes no sense. I watched the game, saw what I saw. There were a few, not 20, posters saying they saw something else. I went back and I saw something in between. What are you expecting? That when someone sees something different than I did, I say I didn't see it?

But if those were 4 30 plus passes then it would. 10 yard passes are common, 10 yard runs are not. You can give up quite a few 10 yard passes while playing good pass D. Getting ripped often for 10 plus runs is a totally different story.

How do I 'act like that'? I have stated exactly what I am thinking, I am not 'acting like' anything. Allowing that many long runs is bad run defense.
If they allowed 11 10 plus runs, and got -3 on the other 12, would that be good run D?


4 complete breakdowns by the front 7 is not controlling the line of scrimmage. Draws count.

Thats like saying the QB threw the ball real well except for the 4 Ints.

Yes, overall it was a poor effort.

AndyJohnson

It wasn't dominating.


You can't pick and choose like that. They were awful on the first drive, we agree on that but you excuse it with 'rusty'. You state that they are not starters. SO? Are you judging them on a curve? I'm not.
Draw plays count. You keep acting like run defense doesn't include draws.

He won't find nearly as much fault in a pass defense that play fantastic as a run defense that had issues.

See, if you had a point you wouldn't need to make stupid comments like that.
You lose all credibility when you do that.
Look, I have an opinion and you have one. I have defended mine and you have defended yours. You look like a total dlckhead to act as if I am stubborn and think I am the only one who can be right and you are not, when neither of us have budged an inch.

The Scrizz

No, I expect you to say, hmmm, I didn't see that, let me check, as opposed to "I'm right they 2 gapped the whole game". But you've been claiming since camp started that Belichick will never change from the 3-4 2-gap and treating it as folly whenever anyone mentions they might.


Now who's making asinine analogies? Are you saying an interception is the same as a 10 yard run? Because that's the semantics game you've been playing with me. You have now gone whacko if you think those are equal. See how that works?

So anything less than 30 yards is a successful pass defense? Whatever. You saw what you saw and I saw what I saw. I hope we get to argue about stupid crap like this every week after a 30 point win.

The Scrizz

Condescending ******** quote #1 "I just think my standard is higher. Nothing wrong with that."

Condescending ******** quote #2 "Look, its fine if you think allowing 4 running plays over 10 yards out of 23 qualifies as good run defense. I don't. "

You may not realize when you're tone is condescending, but it doesn't help your credibility any either.

The Scrizz

And for the record, not to be a dlckhead, but you've claimed at least once that the Jags didn't have their starters in. They in fact started the game with their starting LT,C, and RG that I could identify for sure.