Anyone else still think Samuel is overrated - Page 3 - New England Patriots Forums

MrBigglesWorth · 02-19-2008, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deus Irae

I think that what we see from this team is an overall 'problem' that people keep trying to find a scapegoat for. Many people seem to be crying about the age of the linebackers, for example. Others bemoan the pass rush. To me, what seems glaringly apparent is that this team has no speed merchant on the defense. The corners aren't fast corners, the linebackers aren't fast linebackers, and the starting safeties aren't fast safeties. It's not that they are all snails, it's that there's not a single roadrunner in the bunch

The result of this is that "do your job" becomes more important, and freelancing kills the team defense (See Samuel, Asante v. Giants in week 17). It also results in the famous plays we see when the Patriots succeed in breaking a play down but not making the immediate tackle, such as when a QB gets flushed from the pocket.

You don't think Hobbs is fast? How come he's returning kickoffs?

Colvin is a pretty good speed rusher. AD has more top end speed like Moss versus quickness like Welker.

We need another speed rusher, even if it's a one trick pony for obvious passing downs.

***Deus Irae*** · 02-19-2008, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrBigglesWorth

You don't think Hobbs is fast? How come he's returning kickoffs?

Colvin is a pretty good speed rusher. AD has more top end speed like Moss versus quickness like Welker.

We need another speed rusher, even if it's a one trick pony for obvious passing downs.

As I said, they aren't snails. But Prime Time isn't patrolling the defense for New England, either.

By the way, Hobbs, whom I'm a defender of, is one of those guys with a 40 time that has had a lot of variance. He's been clocked at 4.55 and also at 4.3. I just don't think his game speed in the current system is 4.3ish.

nepatz11 · 02-19-2008, 12:06 PM

Yes people forget how in early 2005 Samuel could not even get on the field when our pass defense was awful (remember matt schaub torching us?).

Hobbs I think is so underated. Samuel is a guy who makes big plays but he gets torched a lot for it.Does that make him great? Thats why I would liek to see some stats. I think Samuel is a good CB but question if he is worth shut down money. Im definitely not saying he is a bad player.

BradyManny · 02-19-2008, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deus Irae

I think that what we see from this team is an overall 'problem' that people keep trying to find a scapegoat for. Many people seem to be crying about the age of the linebackers, for example. Others bemoan the pass rush. To me, what seems glaringly apparent is that this team has no speed merchant on the defense. The corners aren't fast corners, the linebackers aren't fast linebackers, and the starting safeties aren't fast safeties. It's not that they are all snails, it's that there's not a single roadrunner in the bunch.

The result of this is that "do your job" becomes more important, and freelancing kills the team defense (See Samuel, Asante v. Giants in week 17). It also results in the famous plays we see when the Patriots succeed in breaking a play down but not making the immediate tackle, such as when a QB gets flushed from the pocket.

Very interesting points. And maybe that's where Meriweather comes in, as he has greater speed and is an upgrade in coverage ability over Sanders or Harrison.

And then I think another factor in this general speed issue is the loss of Colvin and moving AD to OLB. The drop off really isn't as much in Colvin to AD, it's in AD to Bruschi/Seau. AD's speed and coverage at ILB is important.

Those two factors alone (Meriweather starting and AD at ILB for the full season) will improve our defense next season, and I think will outweigh the loss of Samuel, and that's even before getting into free agency and the draft.

patsfan-1982 · 02-19-2008, 12:08 PM

Best Success for CB in the nfl was Charles Woodson at 70% samuel was not far back at 62% ty law was right there at 60% Best Yards per Pass samuel was number 2 in the nfl give up only 4.5 Worst Success Lito Sheppard was one of the worst at 41% i guy a lot of people wanted to come to the pats Most thrown at CB in the nfl 80mill doller Nate Clements number 2 Marcus Trufant is number 3 i dont think we want him oh ya Nnamdi Asomugha did not make any of the list because he did not even have 35 pass thrown hes way wow lol

BradyManny · 02-19-2008, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patsfan-1982

Best Success for CB in the nfl was Charles Woodson at 70% samuel was not far back at 62% ty law was right there at 60% Best Yards per Pass samuel was number 2 in the nfl give up only 4.5 Worst Success Lito Sheppard was one of the worst at 41% i guy a lot of people wanted to come to the pats Most thrown at CB in the nfl 80mill doller Nate Clements number 2 Marcus Trufant is number 3 i dont think we want him oh ya Nnamdi Asomugha did not make any of the list because he did not even have 35 pass thrown hes way wow lol

Thanks for posting these #s, why do you think we wouldn't want Trufant? If his #s are similar to Samuel and he may come a little cheaper.

PatsandTrojans55 · 02-19-2008, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrBigglesWorth

This is why I think we'll be fine with Gay and some depth behind him and draft at least one rookie to groom plus you have Richardson.

It just stinks letting Asante leave for no compensation. Even the transition tag would have been nice.

Invest the money in other spots.

Did I read this correctly? So we should let Asante walk and START "Gay" and we should be just fine because our defensive weakness last year wasn't getting off the field on 3rd down. Meaning our pass rush wasn't as good as it needs to be on 3rd down and you think a Starting tandom of Hobbs and Gay will be fine with no Playmaking free safety and an aging Rodney Harrison. WOW

patsfan-1982 · 02-19-2008, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BradyManny2344

Thanks for posting these #s, why do you think we wouldn't want Trufant? If his #s are similar to Samuel and he may come a little cheaper.

he was one of the most thrown at CB in the nfl that may be because he was covering the outher teams best WR i dont know i did not see to manny of hes game but he is by far there best CB so why would he be thrown at so much ? i could be worng

***Rob0729*** · 02-19-2008, 12:25 PM

Personally, I do think Samuel is overrated. He is still a very good CB, but he is not an elite or near elite CB.

The thing that concerns me most about him is late in the season, he converted back to his old self. He seemed to correct the problem with his gambling going for the ball when he should be trying to break up the play, but towards the end of the season he was making the same old poor decisions. If you are going to be a jump route type of CB, you gotta be smart about it. It seems that he got a little too daring.

I would like to keep Samuel, but probably not at what he is looking for. Personally, I believe you can have average CB especially in today's NFL as long as you have a really good front seven. I don't think a great CB can make up for deficiencies in the front seven as easily.

***PatsFanJess*** · 02-19-2008, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patsfan-1982

Best Success for CB in the nfl was Charles Woodson at 70% samuel was not far back at 62% ty law was right there at 60% Best Yards per Pass samuel was number 2 in the nfl give up only 4.5 Worst Success Lito Sheppard was one of the worst at 41% i guy a lot of people wanted to come to the pats Most thrown at CB in the nfl 80mill doller Nate Clements number 2 Marcus Trufant is number 3 i dont think we want him oh ya Nnamdi Asomugha did not make any of the list because he did not even have 35 pass thrown hes way wow lol

Asomugha is an incredible talent and a genuine guy. Ive heard many reports that hes a quiet guy and a team player and not someone who's just out looking for the big payday. I'm not sure if Oakland has franchised him yet...I still keep praying that somehow they screw it up ( bc they have a knack for that as of late ), and he out on the market. Def. a dream of mine that he makes it to the Pats. Love this guy.