Ditka: George Halas & George Allen Spied; Sport Magazine documents pre-1967 spying - Page 2 - New England Patriots Forums

#12 · 02-16-2008, 01:36 PM

Great find, thanks for posting!

BPF · 02-16-2008, 01:38 PM

Good read and very interesting, thanks for posting.

JoeSixPat · 02-16-2008, 03:18 PM

Here's a few highlights from 1967 and before:

Quote:

In addition to interrogating former players, other football espionage techniques include:

Watching practices. . . (Usually requires binoculars, sometimes a love of tree climbing.)

Stealing notebooks. . . (One AFL coach, whose autobiography will no doubt be called "The Collector," has allegedly collected a notebook from every other team in the. league.)

Bugging. . . Particularly scouting phones, locker rooms, training rooms and meeting rooms. (Most effective, though plantee had best not be caught with his insurance lapsed.)

Filming practices. . . Requires a super spy plus special equipment.

Spy-messenger . . . On game days this spy is usually disguised as a writer or photographer who snoops on one team and relays information to his employer. (Need a guy who looks like a writer or photographer; that is, disheveled.)

Here's an interesting comment from Grosscup that could just as well have been written in 2007:

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In the case of Jencks--and in most spy charges--there is usually an element of sour grapes. One seldom hears winning coaches register spy accusations.

Here's another tidbit from the article - again, first hand accounts that every reporter who has been covering this story since September has ignored - and is similarly being ignored by the U.S. Congress now:

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When I spoke to Al Davis recently about the present status of espionage in the American Football League, he said Kansas City was by far the worst offender. "The Chiefs are the Bears of the AFL," Davis said. "Lamar Hunt has come out publicly and admitted it."

"You mean he's admitted he employs full-time spies?"

"Yes, he's admitted budgeting for espionage. Of course, if you talk to him, he'll be just like all the rest of 'em--their favorite line is: 'We just don't do those things'--but ask anybody in the league and they'll tell you about Kansas City. Call Don Klosterman in Houston and ask him about the Chiefs."

I spoke to Klosterman, a former Chiefs executive who is now general manager of the Oilers. "Oh yeah," Klosterman confirmed, "Kansas City spies, we caught 'em last year when we played them in their Municipal Stadium. See, the benches are on the same side of the field and they had this guy who was supposedly a roving photographer, but he was really a spy. . . He was snooping by our bench. Every time one of our coaches would say something important to one of our players, this guy would run over and relay the information to the Kansas City bench. I'm not makin' this up . . . we've got pictures of it."

"So what happened?"

"We registered a complaint with the league official. Kansas City got fined for it. That was their second offense with us. We caught 'em during preseason taking pictures of our practices with a Polaroid."

Is it a coincidence that Specter doesn't seem interested in getting a deposition from Al Davis? Perhaps Comcast doesn't want him tearing down the NFL - just putting pressure on Goodell by making the Patriots a scapegoat.

Quote:

Al Davis was the most direct person I interviewed on pro football espionage. "Oh I can't tell you lots of spy stories," Davis said. "But, it's like I told you, you'll never get them confirmed because everybody denies it . . . they all say 'we just don't do those things.' But you can take it from me, they do."
Sure enough, he was right. The very next person I interviewed said he didn't believe in spying.

"We don't. believe in spying here," Al Davis said. "And Sid Gillman at San Diego (Davis was once a Gillman assistant coach) doesn't do it either, but everybody thinks Sid does.

And just in case anyone thinks snooping on practices is a new phenomenon:

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The Rams were practicing at the old Hollywood Park. This kid hid under the scoreboard, see--he didn't know what time the Rams started practice so he got there early--took his lunch and a thermos of coffee. Turns out he had to stay all day because they didn't start till late afternoon. . . He was so close to the players and coaches that he could hear 'em talkin'. He confirmed that they were still all zone by watching for what I told him. When I was sure they were still all zone, I got together with the offensive coach, Luke Johnsos, and told Luke how he could beat the zone-- Force 'em out of the zone by going to a double-wing set, which would necessitate man-on-man coverage. We killed 'em with it . . . every third-and-long situation we just killed 'em. . . and it was all from the information I gave 'em by us in the spy.

***BradyFTW!*** · 02-16-2008, 04:04 PM

Great read, and it gives a lot of ammunition to use against Belichick-haters. Thanks!

nashvillepatsfan · 02-16-2008, 04:21 PM

great read, and great find joe. but nobody nowadays cares, except us pats fans. too bad mr senator has to mix his agenda with our legacy

SVN · 02-16-2008, 04:33 PM

forward this easterbrook and florio and all those idiots. i doubt they will acknowledge.

JoeSixPat · 02-16-2008, 10:07 PM

I'm bumping this thread... really don't want to let this issue die...

You've got some pretty detailed first person accounts of all kinds of cheating that would really take the wind out the sails of those who would make righteous comments about the Patriots

Let he who's team hasn't spied cast the first stone in Spygate.

Maroney's Dreads · 02-16-2008, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nashvillepatsfan

great read, and great find joe. but nobody nowadays cares, except us pats fans. too bad mr senator has to mix his agenda with our legacy

It's awful. I think people who seriously look into it with an objective view realize it's a league wide issue and one that has a long standing history in the NFL. And not just taping, but cheating in general has been a part of football since the league started.

But everyone just reads a few headlines on ESPN, then bury their heads in sand. And they don't want to hear that they might be wrong.

JoeSixPat · 02-16-2008, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maroney's Dreads

It's awful. I think people who seriously look into it with an objective view realize it's a league wide issue and one that has a long standing history in the NFL. And not just taping, but cheating in general has been a part of football since the league started.

But everyone just reads a few headlines on ESPN, then bury their heads in sand. And they don't want to hear that they might be wrong.

The NFL institutionally allows all of it because they have no choice. And as long as its an even playing field where they are treating each team the same, the integrity of the game is sound.

The problem is, they are NOT treating the Patriots like any other team. They are singling them out and making them a scapegoat.

JoePats · 02-16-2008, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeSixPat

The NFL institutionally allows all of it because they have no choice. And as long as its an even playing field where they are treating each team the same, the integrity of the game is sound.

The problem is, they are NOT treating the Patriots like any other team. They are singling them out and making them a scapegoat.

Well said.