Woodhead vs Tomlinson - Page 4 - New England Patriots Forums - PatsFans.com Patriots Fan Messageboard
NEWS
|
FORUM
|
PHOTOS
|
VIDEOS
|
FULL STATS DATABASE
|
PODCAST
|
RUMOR MILL
Get Social With PatsFans.com
Early Roster Projection
Ryan's Journey Started Early
POST DRAFT PODCAST

Go Back   New England Patriots Forums - PatsFans.com Patriots Fan Messageboard > PatsFans.com Forums > PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum
Forgot Password? Join PatsFans.com!
Register Blogs FAQ Members List Calendar Arcade Mark Forums Read Chat Room

WELCOME TO OUR FORUM HERE AT PATSFANS.COM!
ARE YOU NEW HERE? NOT LOGGED IN? PLEASE TAKE A MOMENT TO REGISTER FOR AN ACCOUNT AND LOGIN TO REMOVE THIS WINDOW

Welcome to PatsFans.com. Do you have an account? If not - please take a moment to register for our forum and experience a much smoother experience with fewer ads, along with no longer having to see this notification window. Also learn about how you can receive a free Patriots T-Shirt from the Patriots Official ProShop by CLICKING HERE. Please enjoy your stay here, and Go Pats!

View Poll Results: Who is the more talented and valuable RB in 2010
D. Woodhead 168 90.32%
L. Tomlinson 18 9.68%
Voters: 186. You may not vote on this poll

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-22-2010, 04:58 PM   #31
Third String But Playing on Special Teams
 

Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 608
Default Re: Woodhead vs Tomlinson

Quote:
Originally Posted by capetide View Post
Voted for Woodhead. Don't know if it's because LT is disappearing more and more as the season progresses or just because I can't stand Mr. Classy.
Ditto x2.

10 char
Seacoast Fan is offline  
FEATURED ADVERTISEMENT
DONATE TO PATSFANS.COM
RECEIVE A FREE PATS T-SHIRT AND SAVE 15% OFF WHEN YOU BUY FROM THE OFFICIAL PROSHOP!

Free T-Shirt & Save 15% Off!
Like Our Site? Please help support our site and server costs by DONATING TO PATSFANS.COM and receive a FREE PATRIOTS T-SHIRT and SAVE 15% off EVERY purchase you make from PatriotsProShop.com. You'll also receive added benefits to your account
including Removing All Ads During Your Experience Here At Our Forum.

NEEDED YEARLY SITE DONATIONS: 345 | CURRENT # OF SUBSCRIBED SUPPORTERS: 98

Updated 07/08/11

Help Us Reach Our Goal!

Old 12-22-2010, 06:24 PM   #32
Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
 
Fencer's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 6,396
My Mood: Grumpy
Default Re: Woodhead vs Tomlinson

At this stage of their careers, LdT is probably still better at pounding the ball than Woodhead. But that's the only advantage he has, and I'm not aware that he's particularly good or useful at it either.

Woodhead is better and more valuable.
__________________
"To lose one parent may be regarded as a misfortune; to lose both looks like carelessness." -- Oscar Wilde
Fencer is online now  
Old 12-22-2010, 08:40 PM   #33
2nd Team Getting Their First Start
 
CheeseMonkeys's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Roch NH
Posts: 1,797
Default Re: Woodhead vs Tomlinson

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fencer View Post
At this stage of their careers, LdT is probably still better at pounding the ball than Woodhead. But that's the only advantage he has, and I'm not aware that he's particularly good or useful at it either.

Woodhead is better and more valuable.
I don't know if anyone else agrees but woodhead's been pretty good running into people for the extra yard, and isn't being stuffed or knocked around like a rag doll.
CheeseMonkeys is offline  
Old 12-22-2010, 08:48 PM   #34
Paranoid Homer Moderator
 
PATSNUTme's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Homerville City
Posts: 14,648
My Mood: Devilish
Default Re: Woodhead vs Tomlinson

The most talented undrafted duo in the NFL.

PATSNUTme is offline  
Old 12-23-2010, 12:01 AM   #35
PatsFans.com Supporter
 
BradyFTW!'s Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 13,749
My Mood: Doh
Default Re: Woodhead vs Tomlinson

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyJohnson View Post
But the FO analysis does take situation into consideration.
It accounts for Tomlinson running on 1st and 10 vs Woodhead running on 3rd and 6.
It accounts for down and distance, not for formation or the defensive formation that they're running against.
BradyFTW! is offline  
Old 12-23-2010, 12:11 AM   #36
PatsFans.com Supporter
 
BradyFTW!'s Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 13,749
My Mood: Doh
Default Re: Woodhead vs Tomlinson

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kasmir View Post
It's certainly fair to say that the linear extrapolation I did is entirely speculative. But it cuts both ways: you can't know that Woodhead *wouldn't* continue to perform at a high level given more opportunities.
We can't technically know that he wouldn't rush for 3,000 yards, either, but that's beside the point. It's up to us to use our best judgment, and that doesn't make all speculation equally valid. It still falls to use to use the facts at our disposal, and the simple fact is that Woodhead rarely, if ever, runs into a stacked box, and that's something that LT has had to deal with all the time throughout his career. That, for starters, is why any top-level statistical comparison is ridiculous.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kasmir View Post
No back in the league has done better per play. You can advance the theory that the 100 touches Woodhead has gotten this year is the result of some magical optimization calculation that Belichick did, and that Rex Ryan is just a knuckle head.
Woodhead is a situational player, much like Kevin Faulk. You're not going to ask him to run directly into a defense that's stacking the box against the run, like LT has routinely had to do throughout his career. Woodhead excels when he has a little bit of space to work with, and he's already on the field for most of the snaps where the defense is spread out. For him to get 200+ carries, he would have to be more versatile than he is. That's not an indictment of him as a player; a lot of the Pats' extremely valuable players are specialists. Spikes, Wright, Guyton, Page, Faulk, Morris... all specialists. You seem to interpret that as a put-down of him as a player, but it isn't one. He has a role, and he executes it better than any of us could have hoped. That doesn't change the fact that he isn't as good as Tomlinson, though.

And on top of all of that, you can't overestimate the impact that playing with Brady has on RB's statistics, as I mentioned before. In 2007, Maroney had one of the top DVOAs in the NFL. This year, BJGE is third among players with >100 carries. Playing against defenses that are willing to concede the run because of how afraid they are of Brady will always make RBs look far better than they really are. Do you really think that it's a coincidence that the same's happening with Woodhead right now?

How about the fact that the leading DYAR for players with <100 rushes has looked like this over the past few years: 2007: Sammy Morris, 2008: Kevin Faulk, 2009: Kevin Faulk, 2010: Danny Woodhead. At this point, it's just glaringly obvious that this is a product of the Patriots efficiently using specialist RBs. and defenses conceding the ground game in these situations to try to keep Brady from killing them. What other possible scenario is there that could lead to the Pats having the top RB in this category for four years running, rotating through three different backs? It's just how the system works, and it's a credit to Belichick's genius as a coach.

On a side note, Woodhead's DYAR is tops for players with <99 rushes, his 42.0% DVOA is actually below Rashad Jennings' (MJD's backup), so should we speculate that he, too, is as good as LT circa 2006? Two years ago, Felix Jones posted an 81.8% DVOA- should we go ahead and just label him the greatest RB of all time? Or should we acknowledge that the whole reason why intelligent statistical analysis, like that done by FO, breaks out guys with <100 rushes for a reason. Mostly, because it's unfair and misleading to compare them to guys who have a larger volume of carries, for all of the reasons that I just brought up.
BradyFTW! is offline  
Old 12-23-2010, 12:17 AM   #37
In the Starting Line-up
 

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,061
Default Re: Woodhead vs Tomlinson

Are some of these replies serious? Let's actually look at the original poster's question before contradicting it eight times in a single post.

Woodhead is far more valuable to a football team than LT right now. Not sure why anyone is saying LT is more valuable since he has a bigger workload; if he performs below average many situations, that does not make him valuable, just their only option. LT lacks breakaway speed at this point in his career, which is exactly why he is no longer the player he used to be; while he can still get some chunks of yardage and juke defenders now and then, his explosive impact no longer exists. Woodhead's speed makes him incredible valuable to any football team; many of the 40-yard gains he has put up has nothing to do with the Patriots schemes or personnel; Woodhead is just capable of doing it. If anyone wants to look at relative value, look no further than Kevin Faulk and Thomas Jones, the predecessors in these roles.

A few other points, besides Woodhead's blazing speed versus Tomlinson's old legs, and I might as well throw in the obvious acceleration advantage of Woodhead. First, it's obvious that Woodhead has better hands, while Tomlinson cannot catch anything that isn't put on his numbers. Second, as everyone except Mike Tannenbaum realized, Tomlinson just cannot play in cold weather; everything from the scowl on his face to his slumped shoulders suggests he'd rather be soaking up the sun in So Cal. Woodhead is a straight-up gamer who thrives in challenging weather.
Ice_Ice_Brady is online now  
Old 12-23-2010, 12:27 AM   #38
All Pro Poster
 
RayClay's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 15,646
My Mood: Amused
Default Re: Woodhead vs Tomlinson

We're actually comparing one of the top running backs ever, who is on his way to another 1,000 yard season with a 4.3 YPC and 50 receptions to Danny Woodhead, who has been a pleasant surprise as a change of pace, 3rd down receiver type?

Oooooookay. Knock yourself out.
__________________
Quote:
WE ARE BUILDING A TEAM, NOT COLLECTING TALENT
RayClay is offline  
Old 12-23-2010, 12:27 AM   #39
Third String But Playing on Special Teams
 

Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 579
Default Re: Woodhead vs Tomlinson

Quote:
Originally Posted by BradyFTW! View Post
Woodhead is a situational player, much like Kevin Faulk.
That's an assertion; what's it based on? How do we know that Woodhead is situational player like Faulk instead of an every down back like Warrick Dunn or Ray Rice? He certainly took Faulk's role in the rotation, but that doesn't mean he has the same limitations (or the same strengths, for that matter). Faulk is a known quantity, and had his shot as an every down runner in 2003. Just because it didn't work out for Kevin then doesn't mean it can't work for Danny now. They are not the same player, and many players of Woodhead's size have been every down backs. We don't know what Danny's limitations are yet; why assume them?

Last edited by Kasmir; 12-23-2010 at 12:44 AM..
Kasmir is offline  
Old 12-23-2010, 12:31 AM   #40
All Pro Poster
 
RayClay's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 15,646
My Mood: Amused
Default Re: Woodhead vs Tomlinson

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kasmir View Post
That's an assertion; what's it based on? How do we know that Woodhead is situational player like Faulk instead of an every down back like Warrick Dunn or Ray Rice? He certainly took Faulk's role in the rotation, but that doesn't mean he has the same limitations (or the same strengths, for that matter). Faulk is a known quantity, and had his shot a an every down runner in 2003. Just because it didn't work out for Kevin then doesn't mean it can't work for Danny now. They are not the same player, and many players of Woodhead's size have been every down backs.
He might be 6 feet tall and just have bad posture, for all we know.
__________________
Quote:
WE ARE BUILDING A TEAM, NOT COLLECTING TALENT
RayClay is offline  
Closed Thread

Bookmarks

Sponsored Links



Thread Tools
Display Modes


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Woodhead jerseys now available Patspsycho PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum 6 11-30-2010 10:48 PM
OT: Can someone make a Woodhead sig!? Brady_to_Moss PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum 1 11-21-2010 09:33 PM
Woodhead proves that... WhiteWesWelker88 PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum 45 10-08-2010 01:16 AM



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:13 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2013, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2

© Copyright 2000-2012. PatsFans.com Is a Partner of USA TODAY Sports Digital Properties.
The opinions posted in this forum do not necessarily reflect the opinions of our staff at PatsFans.com or USA Today.
We are not affiliated with the New England Patriots™ or the NFL™. The Photo Used In the header was taken by Ian Logue.

This site is owned and operated by I&K Internet Design Enterprises, LLC