neuronet

What a great example!

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Ice_Ice_Brady writes:
The difference is that Brady calmly calls audibles while Manning flaps like a chicken, barks 11 code words, and makes sure every camera in the stadium has documented his once-in-a-generation (and patented, I believe) ability to see a defensive formation and change the play. Both have the same effect, but Manning transcends measurable human intellect while Brady merely chooses a different play.

jmt57

NFL Rules Digest: Timing in Final Two Minutes of Each Half

1. On kickoff, clock does not start until the ball has been legally touched by player of either team in the field of play. (In all other cases, clock starts with kickoff.)
2. A team cannot buy an excess time out for a penalty. However, a fourth time out is allowed without penalty for an injured player, who must be removed immediately. A fifth time out or more is allowed for an injury and a five-yard penalty is assessed if the clock was running. Additionally, if the clock was running and the score is tied or the team in possession is losing, the ball cannot be put in play for at least 10 seconds on the fourth or more time out. The half or game can end while those 10 seconds are run off on the clock.
3. If the defensive team is behind in the score and commits a foul when it has no time outs left in the final 40 seconds of either half, the offensive team can decline the penalty for the foul and have the time on the clock expire.
4. Fouls that occur in the last five minutes of the fourth quarter as well as the last two minutes of the first half will result in the clock starting on the snap.

Calhoun44

If an offensive holding penalty (this could apply to other penalties too) occurs inside the twenty yard line I understand why they only penalize the team "half the distance to the goal". But why don't they move the first down markers to make the distance an extra 10 yards? For example if it is 1st and 10 on the 4 yard line and a holding call is made, why not make it first and 20 from the 2 yard line and move the first down marker to the 22 yard line?

neuronet

That is a very cool idea.

__________________
Ice_Ice_Brady writes:
The difference is that Brady calmly calls audibles while Manning flaps like a chicken, barks 11 code words, and makes sure every camera in the stadium has documented his once-in-a-generation (and patented, I believe) ability to see a defensive formation and change the play. Both have the same effect, but Manning transcends measurable human intellect while Brady merely chooses a different play.

jmt57

Good question; that change would seem to make a lot of sense.


Similarly it does not seem to make much sense in those type of situations (near either goal line) when, in the example above a team is only penalized two yards ... but then on the next play a penalty goes the other way, and that team gains the full ten yards.


Under current rules:
1st & 10 on own 4
10 yard penalty on offense; marked as half the distance
1st & 12 on own 2
10 yard penalty on defense
1st and 2 on own 12

Under revised rules:
1st & 10 on own 4
10 yard penalty on offense; marked as half the distance
1st & 20 on own 2
10 yard penalty on defense
1st and 10 on own 12

Calhoun44

That is a good point jmt57.

I saw this scenario(see my original post on this subject) happen this past weekend (forget which game it was) and the penalty was a personal foul (block below the knees or something dangerous like that) and it turned out to be a 2 or 3 yard penalty. The next play it was only 3 and 12 or so and they were able to run a draw play for a first down. Under the revised rule there is little chance a running play is gonna make up 25 yards (unlees you are the mighty Danny Woodhead and playing the Broncos).

unoriginal

Great idea. Now to rain on your parade.

The official first down stick is the one linked by chain to an identical stick. One stick goes at the spot of the ball on first down, and the other stick marks where the next first down is. The independent first down stick, on the other side of the field, is unofficial. The entire "science" of down and distance is predicated on the chained set not moving off the initial ball mark on first down. Say you move that chain system upfield 15 yards or 5 yards or whatever is called for in your scheme. Kind of makes the idea of "measuring for a first down" even more tenuous than it already is, since you are no longer lining the chains up with the nose of the football, but where you think the nose of the football would have been in order to accommodate the full penalty yardage.

Long story short: the ball-marking stick doesn't move on anything other than a first down, and the 10-yard chain can't grow longer. Only the ball moves on penalties.

EDIT: On second thought, typically there is another component of the chain set, a marker on the chain itself that gets put on whichever 5 or 10 yard line the chain crosses, so that the chains can be brought onto any spot on the field and placed semi-accurately for measurement. You could use that marker to move the chains to accommodate penalty yardage, but I still think, philosophically, its an ugly change to the down system, and practically, it would mean a delay as the chain gang resets the sticks.

Calhoun44

If pass interference in the end zone happens, "by rule the ball is spotted on the one yard line".

What happens if the play starts from the half yard line? Does the rule change? Has this ever happened?

rlcarr

I haven't checked it against the official 2012 rulebook, but the Digest of Rules section on pass interference says:

See: NFL Rules Digest: Pass Interference

ctpatsfan77

Remember that seemingly odd penalty on the Texans' first drive?

For a while, I couldn't figure out what Duane Brown had done wrong.

And then I realized what the ref had really said: Brown was "on the end of the line."

In other words, the problem was not Brown.



One of the wide receivers to Brown's left committed the penalty: because both lined up too far behind the LOS, the Texans didn't actually have 7 men on the line. . . . and that run got called back.

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"Momentum was quickly snatched away by New England, who once again proved that any Patriot, at any moment, can make a play." —Inside the NFL, Packers v. Patriots

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