Moss is more valuable than Brady - Page 3 - New England Patriots Forums

BoTown · 11-21-2007, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Satchboogie3

I've been saying co-mvp all along. It goes hand in hand. If they both end up breaking records, how could you pick one over the other. Co-MVP seems like the best option. They both deserve it.

Yup. Brady would be great as usual but he wouldn't be over-the-top great without Moss. Same goes vice-versa.

TheGodInAGreyHoodie · 11-21-2007, 01:58 PM

Isn't it really cool that the debate is which Patriot is the league MVP, and not a Patriot vs. a player on another team.

sanvara · 11-21-2007, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlotte Pats Fan

Easy, Brady is the one throwing the balls to Moss. Looking at the stats Brady has thrown 22 TD's to people not named Moss.

This is just another BS way to downgrade Brady's performance this year.

The author is not downgrading Brady's performance. He said right up front that Brady is one of his favorite players of all time.

Obviously arguments can be made both ways but Tom has never had a season like this before and a large part of Tom's level of play being so high this season is because of Moss. Not only the plays Moss makes but he opens the field up for Tom to get the ball to other guys.

Tom's QB rating for the six years he has been a starter has been between 85 and 92. This year he gets Moss and his rating is 131. Tom didn't all of a sudden become a better player after six seasons. He's basically the same QB he was last year, but Moss is the difference.

sieglo · 11-21-2007, 02:08 PM

This is a silly discussion. Moss isn't even leading the Pats in catches. Clearly, he's overrated.

upstater1 · 11-21-2007, 02:08 PM

I wonder who Whitlock voted for MVP in 2004?

Did he vote for Marvin Harrison or Peyton Manning?

Xzibit23 · 11-21-2007, 02:13 PM

Those of you who are saying "Brady won 3 SBs" or "Brady has won without Moss, what has Moss won"..are missing the point. Brady was great before Moss, there's no debate around that nor is Whitlock trying to argue the opposite. In fact he makes a point to continually mention that Brady is indeed one of the alltime greats.

Thing is while Brady has accomplish A LOT without Moss, he has NOT put up MVP numbers. So while he experience a lot of success with the Caldwells of the world, he never experienced the individual success he's going through now. Moss on the other hand has had MVP type impact and performances in previous seasons. Actually, if not for the Vikings slowing down the last 5 weeks of the 2001 season, he was the leading candidate. He was also in contention in '98 and '03, where he again fell victim to the team fading down the stretch.

You see, Brady has showed his true value to the team time and time again, by the SBs and signature moments. But he has not shown MVP value in regards to the award and what it means. MVP value is also dependant on team success but that's secondary, while statistical performance from an individual standpoint is what gives the winners that award, and Brady has done this year that he hasn't in the past.

Xzibit23 · 11-21-2007, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by upstater1

I wonder who Whitlock voted for MVP in 2004?

Did he vote for Marvin Harrison or Peyton Manning?

Did Marvin break the TD record?? Was that Marvin's first year with the team?? Because that creates a direct correlation between Manning having that season.

***ctpatsfan77*** · 11-21-2007, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sanvara

The author is not downgrading Brady's performance. He said right up front that Brady is one of his favorite players of all time.

Obviously arguments can be made both ways but Tom has never had a season like this before and a large part of Tom's level of play being so high this season is because of Moss. Not only the plays Moss makes but he opens the field up for Tom to get the ball to other guys.

Tom's QB rating for the six years he has been a starter has been between 85 and 92. This year he gets Moss and his rating is 131. Tom didn't all of a sudden become a better player after six seasons. He's basically the same QB he was last year, but Moss is the difference.

Think about your argument for a second.

Almost everyone will agree that Pats 2005 receivers > Pats 2006 receivers. But Brady's numbers are--nevertheless--quite similar. Could it possibly be that the effort Brady put in to get those receivers into shape is truly paying off now that he has top-flight receivers?

Also, if it's merely that he has better WRs, how do you explain the fact that Welker's catch % has gone up dramatically as well (Welker was catching about 65% of his passes last year; now he's catching a league-leading* 80%). Last I checked, Welker's not exactly the kind of receiver that can catch a badly overthrown pass.

fleabassist1 · 11-21-2007, 02:17 PM

Stupid thread, move on!

Xzibit23 · 11-21-2007, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ctpatsfan77

Think about your argument for a second.

Almost everyone will agree that Pats 2005 receivers > Pats 2006 receivers. But Brady's numbers are--nevertheless--quite similar. Could it possibly be that the effort Brady put in to get those receivers into shape is truly paying off now that he has top-flight receivers?

Also, if it's merely that he has better WRs, how do you explain the fact that Welker's catch % has gone up dramatically as well (Welker was catching about 65% of his passes last year; now he's catching a league-leading* 80%). Last I checked, Welker's not exactly the kind of receiver that can catch a badly overthrown pass.

At the end of the day, BOTH Moss and Brady make those around them better, including each other. It really doesn't have to be an either/or options. They're both HOFers who are among the greatest at their respective positions. I still believe Brady is more valuable because I believe his position is more valuable, but Moss is right behind him and much more valuable that some Pats fans would like to believe.