Revisting the Wes Welker trade - Page 7 - New England Patriots Forums

Oswlek · 10-17-2007, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dolfaniss

I don't know about that, a first for Welker? Miami got a 2nd for Chambers and he is a former pro bowler, Baltimore gave up a 3rd for Willis McGahee and he is 4th in th NFL in rushing right now and don't forget Oakland only getting a 4th for Moss.

It would be interesting to see how Welker would fair with Gaffney and Caldwell as NE's starting duo or how a guy like Stokely, Roscoe Parrish or even Josh Reed would be in Welker's current role. My guess would be that Welker wouldn't be as good and Stokely, Parrish or Reed would be on everyones fantasy squads. The bottom line is Brady, Moss and Stallworth make everything tick in NE and many othe slot guys could be lighting it up like Wes.

It's tough to debate football with fans of the team that makes all the right moves though.

The point about the tender is that Welker would still be a Dolphin had Miami slapped the $1.85MM tender on him. Considering that the Phins were contractually willing to pay him $1.35mm, they obviously felt either:

a) Getting a 2nd for Welker was fine.
b) Welker wasn't worth $1.85mm under any circumstances.

I think that they made a tactical error.

BTW, I hate this line:

Quote:

The bottom line is Brady, Moss and Stallworth make everything tick in NE and many othe slot guys could be lighting it up like Wes.

First off, Stallworth took three games to really become a factor, and in that time Welker was among the league leaders in catches and yards. Obviously he is not dependent on Stallworth, although having Moss certainly doesn't hurt.

The other part that I hate is the impication that Welker is living off of other WRs and just about anyone would be fine there. While Welker certainly is aided by having other weapons around him, he is the ideal slot guy. He is smart, quick and he runs great routes. He also plays with a ton of heart. Unlike most teams, NE's slot guy isn't just the 3rd best WR on the team who happens to see the field when they are in a long yardage situation. The slot WR is a specific weapon that they lean on just as much as they do any other.

For instance, Welker saw the field 30-something times against Dallas and was targetted 14 times. He is not a spare part, he is an integral part of the machine.

Dolfaniss · 10-17-2007, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oswlek

The point about the tender is that Welker would still be a Dolphin had Miami slapped the $1.85MM tender on him. Considering that the Phins were contractually willing to pay him $1.35mm, they obviously felt either:

a) Getting a 2nd for Welker was fine.
b) Welker wasn't worth $1.85mm under any circumstances.

I think that they made a tactical error.

BTW, I hate this line:

First off, Stallworth took three games to really become a factor, and in that time Welker was among the league leaders in catches and yards. Obviously he is not dependent on Stallworth, although having Moss certainly doesn't hurt.

The other part that I hate is the impication that Welker is living off of other WRs and just about anyone would be fine there. While Welker certainly is aided by having other weapons around him, he is the ideal slot guy. He is smart, quick and he runs great routes. He also plays with a ton of heart. Unlike most teams, NE's slot guy isn't just the 3rd best WR on the team who happens to see the field when they are in a long yardage situation. The slot WR is a specific weapon that they lean on just as much as they do any other.

For instance, Welker saw the field 30-something times against Dallas and was targetted 14 times. He is not a spare part, he is an integral part of the machine.

Sorry Wes!! Just kidding. Believe me I've watched Welker play and agree with many of your points, but he is playing on the most prolific offense in the NFL right now. He never lit it up like this with Gus Frerrotte, Chris Chambers and Marty Booker but had a decent year with Joey "I only throw 1-10 yards Harrington throwing to him. I've watched 3 Pats games in there entirety and ech time the analysts were breaking down the fact that the opposing defenses were trying, I stress trying, to take away the outside guys whcih was leaving single coverage, sometimes even LB's and safties to cover the middle of the field.

You may hate my line but I'm sticking with it. With the threat that Moss or Stallworth can score on any play, I'm imagining the guys covering the middle aren't getting much help. The arguement is moot because we will never know. Welker is definetly a great fit for New England though but I don't think Miami's record is much different with him on the team, unless he can play defensive back.

Denzera · 10-17-2007, 10:51 PM

does anyone have an easy-to-hand summary of BB's 7th-round draft picks? I'd love to see that list to see if he's ever gotten anything worthwhile out of that pick.

***Frezo*** · 10-17-2007, 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dolfaniss

It would be interesting to see how Welker would fair with Gaffney and Caldwell as NE's starting duo or how a guy like Stokely, Roscoe Parrish or even Josh Reed would be in Welker's current role. My guess would be that Welker wouldn't be as good and Stokely, Parrish or Reed would be on everyones fantasy squads. The bottom line is Brady, Moss and Stallworth make everything tick in NE and many othe slot guys could be lighting it up like Wes.

It's tough to debate football with fans of the team that makes all the right moves though.

The importance of the slot receiver for the Pats can't be overstated. Their playbook was chock full of plays in the slot for Troy Brown. Welker is smart enough to learn enough of them to give Brady confidence to throw his way. In fact I can't recall him blowing a route that caused an incompletion. He's 's also athletic enough to execute the plays. He may benefit from the Pat's other receivers, but Welker split double coverage for a TD reception last week. That was an impressive play.

Hok · 10-18-2007, 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denzera

does anyone have an easy-to-hand summary of BB's 7th-round draft picks? I'd love to see that list to see if he's ever gotten anything worthwhile out of that pick.

http://www.drafthistory.com/team-round/patriots.html

Belichick's 7th rounders with the Patriots:

2007 1 211 Oscar Lua LB USC
2007 37 247 Mike Elgin G Iowa
2006 21 229 Willie Andrews DB Baylor
2005 16 230 Matt Cassel QB USC
2005 41 255 Andy Stokes TE William Penn
2004 32 233 Christian Morton DB Illinois
2003 20 234 Spencer Nead TE Brigham Young
2003 25 239 Tully Banta-Cain DE California
2003 29 243 Ethan Kelley DT Baylor
2002 26 237 Antwoine Womack RB Virginia
2002 33 244 David Givens WR Notre Dame
2001 16 216 Owen Pochman K Brigham Young
2001 39 239 T.J. Turner LB Michigan State
2000 20 226 Casey Tisdale LB New Mexico
2000 33 239 Patrick Pass RB Georgia

***ctpatsfan77*** · 10-19-2007, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dolfaniss

You may hate my line but I'm sticking with it. With the threat that Moss or Stallworth can score on any play, I'm imagining the guys covering the middle aren't getting much help. The arguement is moot because we will never know. Welker is definetly a great fit for New England though but I don't think Miami's record is much different with him on the team, unless he can play defensive back.

Funny you should mention that--in HS, he only had 22 INTs as a DB. . . .

***ALP*** · 10-19-2007, 01:36 PM

i agree that welker is an integral part...

i dont see how him finding the open spot and breaking double cover is helped by moss and stallworth...

i think stallworth is rewarded as much by welker's precense as it is the other way around...

just cuz welker has not been known b4 he joined the pats does not mean he was not good...i saw welker play in miami last yr, and happen to think that if he played for them this year, miami would at least not be winless...

ATippett56 · 10-21-2007, 07:50 PM

Don't look now, but Welker led all offensive players in receiving yards this week against the Miami Dolphins.

http://www.nfl.com/players/profile?id=00-0022427

http://www.nfl.com/players/gamelogs?id=WEL219433

Truck · 10-21-2007, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALP

i dont see how him finding the open spot and breaking double cover is helped by moss and stallworth...

Because if we had welker + last year's receivers (caldwell, jaffney, brown, etc), then welker would probably have the other team's best CB (or SS) + someone else on him, instead of mostly single coverage with a LB on him.