sieglo

Is it possible to be a statistically great QB on a Bill Belichick football team?

VJCPatriot

Why not? In 2005 Tom Brady led the league in passing yardage, yes more yards than Peyton Manning, with Branch and Givens as his top targets.
I think Moss and Stallworth are better than that tandem, and factor in a maturing Maroney and Watson and you have a recipe for explosive offense in 2007.

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QuiGon

This is a silly premise. If Brady doesn't win a Super Bowl this year but finishes with 4 or 5 titles, no one's going to look at his career and say "Yeah, he was good but once he lost in 2007, I knew he wasn't for real..."

solman

Do you deny that even when it was Brady 3, Manning 0, people were saying stuff like "If I had to start a franchise, I'd want Manning, not Brady as QB"? Superbowl titles are, in and of themselves, not sufficient to settle the argument.

If Brady retires with 3 or even 4 titles, and his statistics remain the same (and again, those are pretty darn good statistics), we will hear people saying that he wasn't as good as his superbowl record for all eternity.

If he gets five titles, people will still think it (but they won't say it )

richpats

Don't worry, the second after the Colts lose in the playoffs, all of the talk will resume once again. "Can he win another?" "Is he a one-hit wonder?" "Can he win without Dungy?" There will always be some doubt based on his past (and inevitable future) playoff failures.

QuiGon

Everything you've just written here may all be very well and good, but it has nothing to do with your original contention that started this thread. You wrote "This is the year that will determine Brady's legacy." It is simply ridiculous to take a 3 time Super Bowl champion and pin his entire legacy to one single year... like if he fails to win a Super Bowl this year then all of a sudden everyone is going to say "Well, he's just not all that good and shouldn't go to the Hall of Fame..."

richpats

True, but I really don't want to lose out to the Colts and hear about how Brady has failed in the playoffs 3 straight years while Manning gets another ring and they've somehow "switched places".

solman

OK, let me clarify my comments.

In my mind, a player's legacy is what people think of when that player's name comes up decades after he has stopped playing.

We KNOW that people will say that he won games. Even if Tom Brady sucks the rest of his career, an 80-25 regular season during his first seven seasons proves that.

We KNOW that people will say that he could win big games. 12-2 in the playoffs, 3-0 in the Superbowl during his first seven seasons proves that.

We KNOW that people will say he was a great pressure QB. We KNOW that people will say he was a great leader.

The one aspect of his legacy that remains in doubt is what people think of his on field passing talent.

When people say that Tom Brady "just wins" there is an implication that he only wins; that his winning record far exceeds his observable on field performance.

I think that is just plain wrong. I think that Montana in his prime with Gaffney and Caldwell (instead of Rice and Taylor) wouldn't perform nearly as well as Brady did. I think that Manning would be a joke is you made a similar substitution for Harrison and Wayne.

But this year IS especially important if he wants to prove it because this is his first year with a quality receiving corps. Only by producing great numbers THIS season can he prove that his past numbers were the result of inferior receivers. Great performances in future years won't be sufficient to accomplish this.

Nordberg

Solman.....you speak the truth my friend. I'm with you 110%.

My dream season is for Brady to not only win....but light up his stats this year. On the surface, I don't care if Brady puts up huge stats, as long as the Pats are winning I am happy. But wouldn't it be great to for the season to playout as follows:

Brady throws for over 4,000 yards and 40 TD'S.

While Harrison and Wayne miss time due to minor injuries throughout the season (don't wish major injury on anyone) and Manning looks lost with who ever the replacements are.

Brady wins MVP.....and superbowl of course.

Every football fan that EVER discussed the Manning vs. Brady thing would only be able to think one thing.

IT WASSSSSSSSSSS THE RECEIVERS.

FarScapeR

That is a scary thought.