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good point, except i wouldve thought that the "biggest no brainer on earth" was franchising perhaps one of the greatest clutch kickers off all time, and the game winner in all 3 of our super bowls, but apparently the pats brass has other plans. i still hope they franchise samuel though.
re-franchising vinitraitor would have been a horrible move... overpay for an easily replacable kicker (see 4th round, improvement).. give a 20% raise to the highest paid kicker of all time? foolish... did you forget the vinitraitors missed kicks in the SB's?
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Read post 19 and tell me how you will trade him if he insists on being a free agent and refuses to agree to a contract with any trading partner.
You're just being silly because he's playing for the long term contract - which he will get this offseason, btw. All that BS you're talking about isn't going to get it for him. They Franchise him. If he doesn't like it, he can go out and find a team that will give him - and give the Patriots - what they want.
You're making it more confrontational that it is. Samuel just wants his long term contract - with us or someone else. All this holdout stuff is silly.
This is silly. You CANNOT get value for him unless he wants you to get value. You cannot trade him under the tag unless he wants to be traded. You describe the best case scenario. You say there is no reason to care if he is happy or pissed and expect the agent to go along with the Pats best case scenario when they are denying Samuel what he wants for no other reason then for them to get a draft pick.
If he is pissed, how are you going to trade him? All he has to do is refuse to sign a deal with the team the pats want to trade with. You can't trade the tag. If he doesn't sign a deal, there is no trade.
He has three choices if he is unhappy. He doesn't sign the franchise agreement until hours before the opening game. Then he doesn't have to attend any training camp functions at all. He shows up, gets paid, but doesn't get used much because he was not part of training camp and does not know any of the new plays.
Choice B is to not sign the agreement at all, to sit out until he feels like signing. He loses money, but the pats are up the creek. They have no CB. And if they trade for one during the season, but they have to keep 7.9 million of free space because Samuel can sign at any time. If they withdraw the tag, Samuel is a FA and the Pats have sent a clear message to every player in the league that they are a-holes.
Choice C is to sign the tag hours before the opening game, and talk to the press about anything he wants, describe every players injury, whatever he wants. Pats will take one week of this before dropping the tag and Samuel will be a FA and the Pats will be the same A-holes they were with choice B.
Space, it's no skin off Asante's nose if we get value for him. You are way over-dramatizing this. All he cares about is getting his deal. If we won't give it to him, he would much prefer to be traded to someone who will rather than be expected to play under the tag. It's business, and he and his agent understand that. They would prefer to be let go on their own with no strings, but their second choice is to be let go with a little string.
In fact the tag talk just bolsters his value. Kinda like Deions's agent asking he not be tagged, which was perhaps a little pre-emptive PR spin on his part to link his player with the franchise player tag. Did Deion refuse to be traded? Of course he didn't, in fact he found his own market as Asante will because at the end of the day all these particular guys want is their money. They may say some silly things in parting, but they care less about who signs their checks than the numbers on that check. Just like FA interviewing here will care less about what we did to/with Deion or Asante than what we will do for them.
This team won't tag him except to trade him IMO. They aren't going to play chicken with him all summer - they tried that with Deion and it failed. The only wrinkle in this is if Asante can't find a team willing to pay him the kind of money everyone assumes is out there for him. I doubt that will happen in this market, and in that case he would want to either sign his tag and play in 2007 to prove his value, or sign a long term deal here afterall. Holding out at that point would do his cause harm, not good. But if there is a market for him beyond what we are offering, there will also be someone in that market willing to trade picks for the opportunity to sign him. He knows that, his agent knows that, this FO knows that, and fans need to appreciate that. Asante's motto is Get Paid, and one way or another he will.
Space, it's no skin off Asante's nose if we get value for him. You are way over-dramatizing this. All he cares about is getting his deal. If we won't give it to him, he would much prefer to be traded to someone who will rather than be expected to play under the tag. It's business, and he and his agent understand that. They would prefer to be let go on their own with no strings, but their second choice is to be let go with a little string.
In fact the tag talk just bolsters his value. Kinda like Deions's agent asking he not be tagged, which was perhaps a little pre-emptive PR spin on his part to link his player with the franchise player tag. Did Deion refuse to be traded? Of course he didn't, in fact he found his own market as Asante will because at the end of the day all these particular guys want is their money. They may say some silly things in parting, but they care less about who signs their checks than the numbers on that check. Just like FA interviewing here will care less about what we did to/with Deion or Asante than what we will do for them.
This team won't tag him except to trade him IMO. They aren't going to play chicken with him all summer - they tried that with Deion and it failed. The only wrinkle in this is if Asante can't find a team willing to pay him the kind of money everyone assumes is out there for him. I doubt that will happen in this market, and in that case he would want to either sign his tag and play in 2007 to prove his value, or sign a long term deal here afterall. Holding out at that point would do his cause harm, not good. But if there is a market for him beyond what we are offering, there will also be someone in that market willing to trade picks for the opportunity to sign him. He knows that, his agent knows that, this FO knows that, and fans need to appreciate that. Asante's motto is Get Paid, and one way or another he will.
I agree with this post except for the part at the end comparing this to the Deion situation. Deion was looking at giving up 10/16 (or is it 9/16?) of 1M if he held out. Asante would be giving up 10/16 of 8M. There is no way Asante holds out. I agree that they should look to trade him, but if a worthy offer never comes along having him for a year at 8M isn't a bad thing.
One thing that should not be overlooked, is that if you let him walk we would likely get a 3rd round compensatory pick in the following draft. I still think we should Tag him, but Belioli definately takes into account compensatory picks when they determine whether or not to sign someone.
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In front of his team after a 28-10 loss to the Packers in 2002, Belichick said: "We have a lot of smart guys in this room, but on the football field we play like a bunch of f------- morons. If you are one of the players flinching at the harshness of these words, you might as well begin packing. There is no way you are going to last as a New England Patriot."
Another thing to keep in mind is that Buffalo won't tag Clements, so if we wait the pricetag for a top CB will be set whether we like it or not. Since it's unlikely that the Pats & Asante will agree before we are forced to tag him, the price for Asante will likely be set for us by what someone pays (overpays) Clements. Would the Pats pay Asante a similar figure? I doubt it.
P.S. Be kind...1st time poster, long time lurker.
Space, it's no skin off Asante's nose if we get value for him.
Didn't say it was. i said you cannot franchise and trade him unless he agrees. I said the attitude of it doesn't matter if he is happy about it or not is totally incorrect.
I'm saying his attitude is what matters most.
I'm saying if he wants a long term contract, he is better off in FA than being franchised.
It is totally up to him, and this idea that it doesn't matter if he is pissed or not couldn't be more wrong.
I would love to see him franchised and traded.
But if you were Samuel's agent, what would you prefer: the ability to deal with any team on your terms to get the best salary you can get, or be required to satisfiy the Patriots need for a good pick, and figure that a team that would offer a $40 mil contract for a FA would be just as willing to offer a first round pick AND $40 million?
It just does not make sense for a player to accept being franchised and traded. That is why it almost never happens.
I hope he is agreeable to being franchised and traded. But I still say it is totally up to im, and the worst case scenario is NOT that we let him walk. It is that we franchise him and he goes Deion on us.
Didn't say it was. i said you cannot franchise and trade him unless he agrees.
He wants a long term deal to his liking. Whether a team has to trade for the right to give it to him is irrelevant.
You can't have it both ways. The reason he doesn't want to be Franchised is he wants a long term deal. But then you say he may not accept a long term deal from a team if the team has to trade for him. It makes no sense. If a team offers him what he wants, he'll agree . . . end of story.
I agree with this post except for the part at the end comparing this to the Deion situation. Deion was looking at giving up 10/16 (or is it 9/16?) of 1M if he held out. Asante would be giving up 10/16 of 8M. There is no way Asante holds out.
Asante gives up nothing if he holds out because he knows, Deion knows, you know, everyoen knows, the Patriots will not tolerate a disruptive and devisive situation. They will release the tag as the Eagles did with -who was it? Simon? Trotter? - a couple years ago.
The Pats cannot afford to play the bully on this. How can they try to sign a FA at the same time they are bullying one of their own FAs into submission. What an enticement.
I'm not an advocate of players holding out, I think agents have way too much power.
But this is one area where the club would be interfering with the player's right to market himself. If he agrees with the franchise/trade, fine. If he does not, there could be no worse scenario than trying to force him.
Last edited by spacecrime; 02-16-2007 at 09:17 AM..
Asante gives up nothing if he holds out because he knows, Deion knows, you know, everyoen knows, the Patriots will not tolerate a disruptive and devisive situation. They will release the tag as the Eagles did with -who was it? Simon? Trotter? - a couple years ago.
Because the Patriots are pussies who can't play poker right ? You must be kidding. Did they just release Branch ? How about Glenn and his distraction ? They kicked him off the team and still got two 4ths for him.
Re: Reiss take on the Franchise Tag
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