carolinatony

How old is Ralph and who takes over after him?

primetime

Hey, I'm Schenectady born, Albany raised. Don't have to force me to hate NYC.

It's taken Rome and Utica years to recover from the closure of Griffiss. Syracuse was one city that never really took a big economic hit. Buffalo's just dying though. I was there a month and a half ago... the city's falling apart. Rotting buildings, abandoned lots, the works. Aside from one nice strip down Main Street and the suburbs out in the Tonawanda and Orchard Park areas, its pretty much dead.

Ralph's definitely killing the Bills though. As are the Sabres, in kind of an unfortunate, indirect way.

Va_Pats_Fan

There was talk of this 20 years ago when the Montreal franchise folded up. The NFL, at the time, stated that as long as the CFL (the older and more distinguished league The "Grey Cup" has been competed for since 1909...as opposed to the Johnny come Lately "SuperBowl" ) was viable, the NFL would never expand north. The CFL did expand south of the border for a while, before it gave up that particular business plan.

As far as size, (urban area), if Toronto was in the US, it would rank 6th over all. Behind Philadelphia, and ahead of Dallas/Fort Worth. It could, and certainly would, support a NFL team if the CFL ever folded up shop.

The Sarge

The NFL is not coming to Toronto. The league makes most of its money through its TV contract a team in Toronto would get a share of that money leaving less for the other owners. The games are already on television so the advertisers won't make much more money if a team is in Toronto. The last expansion fee was 625 million the next fee will be close to a billion and skydome is too small so you need a new stadium that could be close to another billion to build. So you could be paying 2 billion for just 8 home games a year good luck trying to make that money back.

upstater1

I live in Buffalo. You're completely wrong about the area's economy. Buffalo is rebounding from what it suffered in the 70s. Seriously, things have changed for the better up here. The city is experiencing revitilization in several facets. I have no idea who you're talking to, but have they been to Buffalo recently, or are they transplants from a decade ago?

Also realize that the Bills are top 10 in ticket sales for a long time.

Box_O_Rocks

There you go, Buffalo is indeed it's own worst enemy, heck Cleveland seemed to be doing better last time I wandered through. Ralphie has a pretty big market to work with if he thought regionally, he's got chunks of two nations to work with, guess he's getting the wrong medications.

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upstater1

This isn't true at all. It's actually the opposite. Upstate would be much better off without New York City. New York is a really rich city, and with that come exceedingly high taxes. Were it not for the ability of New York City residents to pay those exorbitantly high taxes, the rest of us who live upstate would have a much saner tax policy for our region. But all the political leverage is located downstate.

Recently, Western NY has won some of the battles, so now the billions of dollars that are transferred from the power plants on the Niagara River to New York Public Housing (this is how the state pays for public housing in NYC, by transferring excess energy to the area) are going to be returned up here.

Property values in Buffalo are climbing quickly, it is not Schenectady or Syracuse. There's actual an urban core here that many people would be surprised at.

upstater1

You missed the city. Were you on Delaware? Elmwood? Lincoln parkway? Chippewa?

Main Street is the worst part of the downtown area.

2_LAW_4

Wow!!! Talk about someone speaking from their @ss. Common buddy, don’t just throw out random notions you have no basis of arguing or backing up. Because the CFL has thrived in those cities does not mean the NFL cannot in Toronto. Both Calgary's and Edmonton's geographic location limits sports fans to stay within a buffered area. Moreover, if you look directly below both cities and into the US, no major city with an NFL franchise is remotely close. It is reasons such as these that Calgarians and Edmontons stay loyal to their CFL teams. Furthermore, cities like Vancouver, Toronto, and some parts of Montreal prefer the NFL to the CFL. The former going to Seahawks games, while the latter two are either Bills, Jets, or Patriots fans. Both the Bills and Seahawks hold Canadian tribute day to thank the vast number of fans north of the border for supporting their franchise.

As a Torontonian, I have come in contact with recent media rumours regarding the NFL in Toronto. Although it does not seem farfetched, the likelihood, I believe, is very very slim.

A number of factors, some of which have been touched upon, are reasons why Toronto won’t get a franchise:
-Toronto does have a fan base for the Argos, albeit a very small one. Thus making it hard to run two franchises, unless the Argos folds.
-There are more taxes in Canada. Persuading players to come play in Toronto may be a hard feat to accomplish (see the Raptors and Blue Jays, and then compare them to the Leafs - big difference)
- Radio and television contracts. Someone mentioned they are a big part of the leagues income... all of CBS, FOX and NBC are American owned. Canadian television will want a piece of the pie, but will not be able to pay the incredible fees associated with televising games (unless Ted Rogers buys the team - which has been rumoured).
- Rogers Centre (skydome) isn’t big enough. The NFL requires stadiums to hold at least 60K (the lone exception is the colts, I think). A new stadium would have to be built. There are proposed areas in the periphery of the City (Downsview – access to highway, transit line, huge open green space, the site also held SARS Stock – some 400k attended).


Why is it a good idea to have a team in Toronto? Here are a few:
- Someone mentioned Toronto has the sixth largest population if it were included in the U.S. This is almost accurate. Canada uses a different geographical boundary that measures city population. It is known as the Central Metropolitan Area (CMA). The US uses a much larger spatial measure for their cities (can’t remember the name of it). If Toronto were to incorporate the US spatial standard, it would actually be the fourth largest population, and fifth largest in all of North America (1. Mexico City, NY, LA, CHI, and then Toronto). So market area is there.
- Football, and more specifically, the NFL, is widely watched in Toronto. A large portion of Buffalo Bills fans are from the Greater Toronto Area (as mentioned above - Canada day). If the Bills were to move, Toronto would make the most sense.
- Stakeholders; they got plenty of Toronto based stakeholders willing to purchase an NFL franchise. Of note, Ted Rogers and Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment have discussed partnership in the bid to get an NFL franchise.

2_LAW_4

The Bills may be one of the top teams in ticket sales, but the reason behind that is Buffalo does have the leagues lowest average ticket price. This past season, I think it was around $46.00. Compare that to the Patriots and there is a big difference.

Also regarding Buffalo, according to census data, it is a old and declining population. Statistics dont lie, and those two variables do not bold well for the future.

I still, however, feel Buffalo wont lose their franchise.