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|05-19-2006, 07:48 PM||#1|
Join Date: Mar 2005
Building your own Patriotsâ€™ roster depth chart position by position - Week 2 RB/FB
Current Roster: Earl Charles, Patrick Cobbs, Corey Dillon, Heath Evans, Kevin Faulk, Laurence Maroney, Patrick Pass, Garrett Mills (TE)
Some FAâ€™s available: None that I am interested in unless we have injuries
I thought it might generate more discussion to attempt to break down the roster depth chart for certain roles that RBs/FBs play.
Primary/feature runningback (RB) â€“ Who will get the most carries?
1. Corey Dillon â€“ I think Dillon will bounce back and have a good year. He is still the man, especially in November/December. I think Dillon will actually benefit from splitting carries with Faulk/Maroney to get a breather when he needs it and will be more effective.
2. Laurence Maroney â€“ I think Maroney will be a force to reckon with, but may not get quite as many carries as Dillon this year while he is still learning the system, blitz pickup, etc.
3. Kevin Faulk â€“ Faulk still has his role on the team, but it is not as the primary ball carrier. Hopefully at least one of Dillon/Maroney is healthy each game so we donâ€™t need to rely on Faulk to try to do more than his 3rd down RB role.
4. Patrick Pass â€“ I think Pass may still make the team (he is kind of on the edge) and could be effective in spots, but hopefully we donâ€™t need to go this deep in the depth chart.
Runningback in passing situations (3rd down RB)
1. Kevin Faulk â€“ Faulk is still a good RB as a receiver out of the backfield and is still an effective weapon in this role. I donâ€™t see anyone else ready to take his place yet.
2. Laurence Maroney â€“ Hopefully he learns quickly and can be effective in this role when needed.
3. Corey Dillon, Patrick Pass, Garrett Mills â€“ I am not sure how to rank these guys in this role.
Primary role as blocker, also receiver out of the backfield (FB)
1. Patrick Pass â€“ No true FB on the team. Pass may still have a role here.
2. Garrett Mills â€“ Mills showed in college that he can be a very effective receiver. How good is he as a blocker?
3. David Thomas â€“ Will he be asked to play out of the backfield a fair amount? If so, he might move ahead of Mills or even Pass in this role.
Short yardage/goal line blocker out of the backfield (FB)
1. Richard Seymour â€“ We have used Klecko, Seymour and Ashworth (any others?) in this role. Ash is gone. Klecko may not make the team. Is anyone else ready to be more effective or at least nearly as effective as Seymour here? I am not sure.
2. Ben Watson, David Thomas, Garret Mills â€“ I would like to see one of these guys step up to fill this role so that the defense has to be careful of a pass and not just key on the run.
I think that Earl Charles, Patrick Cobbs and Heath Evans are longshots to make the team unless we have injuries. Patrick Pass may be on the fence. Earl Charles and Patrick Cobbs might get consideration for the Practice Squad. The others should be locks.
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|05-19-2006, 07:59 PM||#2|
Third String But Playing on Special Teams
Join Date: Mar 2005
If they keep four TEs (Mills being one of them), then Pass will make the team. If they keep 3 TEs and Mills as a FB, I think Pass might be gone.
|05-19-2006, 08:14 PM||#3|
Join Date: Mar 2006
3: SOL if they're both down. But Faulk.
4: Moe Williams (see "Goal Line/Third and Short" thread.)
2. RB in passing situations
1: Kevin Faulk, for reasons listed above, but by a nose.
2: Moe Williams - the kind of guy that can catch for 75 and run for 75
3: Mills. I doubt he's there just to block.
4: Dillon. Not a hands-of-stone guy by any means. If both the above are down, I trust his ability out of the backfield moreso than Pass - who is gone - or Maroney, who seems to catch well but has little game experience as a passcatching RB.
3. Primarily receiver, also blocker
1: Let the games begin, because I can't think of one guy who is primarily a blocking fullback under discussion. Mills or Thomas - assuming they can block at pro level. Grahambo? Seymour? Vrabel? Williams? Oh screw it, I'm saying O'Callaghan.
4. Interesting choice of a category. I will just ditto your rankings.
5. You did not mention short yardage/goal line RUNNING BACK, since we would want to determine who gets the rock.
1: Moe Williams. One of the best in the game at this.
2: Corey Dillon. Ditto - but I think we get another year extra out of him by keeping him out of the short yardage situations.
3: Maroney. Heftier and younger than Faulk, not ideally suited for goal line duty, but would survive it just fine.
4: Faulk. Oh just bounce it outside... we've lost 3 running backs by now.
You may notice, I like the idea of picking up Moe Williams. Now if somebody says he cusses out coaches, punches cops, and has an IQ of 72, I'll say "hmmmm maybe not a Patriot." Otherwise, think about his versatility. I know we're keeping tight ends around just to do some of this. But I would see Williams as an upgrade over Pass, a goal-line wear-and-tear saver on our primary guys, and a player that could be had for a relatively affordable price.
See ya in two weeks when someone else picks him up... but for now, there's my chart.
|05-19-2006, 09:06 PM||#4|
Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
Join Date: Sep 2004
This is somehat speculative since we haven't seen some of the newcomers play. RB contingent is Dillon, Maroney, Pass, Faulk, and Mills.
Dillon & Maroney with the majority of the carries to Dillon. Pass for an occasional blow.
Third down back:
Faulk and Mills followed by Pass. Everything I have read says that Mills is the reincarnation of Larry Centers (or Kevin Turner). BB had Richie Anderson with the Jets and brought in LC when on his last legs here. I think Mills is grooming for that spot. But I must say that part of what KF dangerous was that they would give him some carries even if its a draw on third-and-eight, so that the screen passes were not automatically read by the D, as soon as KF checked into the huddle. He has to get some rushes. I could even see some 2 back sets with Faulk and Mills as both potential receivers and Faulk sometimes as a RB.
Mills and Pass
Goal Line blocker:
One of the O linemen.
My idea is O'Callaghan at RG and Neal as the FB. He's much more mobile and nimble, while Ryan has the push. It wouldn't hurt to have Britt pushing right next to him at RT and Grhambo at TE.
Goal line scorer and 4-1 RB:
Dillon Period. (and TB sneaks!)
I originally expected BB to pick up a former starter vet to eke out another year or two. Like Antowain or Corey, I was looking for Fred Taylor or Steve Davis but not anymore. Those days are gone.
|05-19-2006, 09:14 PM||#5|
Join Date: May 2005
1) Part of Vikings' boat party
2) Had surgery in November after serious knee injury
3) Is on the brink of retirement.
#2 RB for Patriots in 2006? I don't think so! Especially when there are players like Patrick Pass (who I fell in love with before his injury - had some great runs behind a shaky OL, and also some catches out of the backfield that went for 20-25 yards.) and Garrett Mills.
For example, with Pass - October Denver game:
1st and 10 NE 40
Result: Sweep, Patrick Pass, right side, 15 yds.
Offense: 3 wide, 2 left, TE left - in motion to flanker right.
Defense: 4-2 nickel.
Blocking: Kaczur gets inside LDE
Koppen takes outside position on LDT
Neal takes outside position on RDT
Graham turns RDE inside and knocks him down
Ashworth gets upfield and seals off LLB
Mankins pulls and blocks TLB
Dwight blocks the RCB out of the play.
Analysis: Nice execution, everyone stayed with their blocks.
1st and 10 NE 21
Result: Screen, Patrick Pass, left side, 39 yds.
Offense: Shotgun, 4 wide.
Defense: 4-1 dime.
Blocking: Kaczur rode the LDE out and downfield
Ashworth rode the RDE out and downfield
Koppen chipped on the RDT and Neal turned him outside before releasing to the screen
Mankins buried a DB upfield and took out a second who tripped over the pile
Koppen cut the LDT who had dropped into coverage
Neal knocked down another DB and added a pursuing DL who tripped over the DB
Dwight got a lick on the MLB allowing Pass to get past.
Analysis: Good play call and great blocking upfield.
2nd and 2 Den 29
Result: Run, Patrick Pass, right side, 10 yds.
Offense: 2 wide, 2 TE left, Watson side skips from flanker inside behind LT.
Defense: 4-3; despite 4 down linemen, the RDE is wearing 40 and LLB 42 so this is more 3-4 then 4-3.
Blocking: Graham and Kaczur doubled the LDE
Hochstein turned the LDT out
Koppen blocked the MLB left
Neal blew the RDT off the line
Ashworth drove the RLB off the line and over behind the left side
Watson knocked the RDE back 2 yds, then locked onto him again
Branch blocked the CB upfield until Patrick Pass ran into him.
Analysis: The play started up the middle, but Denver over-pursued and Pass cut it back right making the LLB miss at the line.
1st and goal Den 8
Result: Run, Patrick Pass, left side, touchdown.
Offense: 2 wide, 2 TE left, Watson in motion flanker behind LT.
Blocking: Graham turns the RDE out
Kaczur blocks the LLB out upfield
Hochstein rides the LDT leftwhen he tried to shoot the ‘b’ gap
Watson wham blocks the RDT and stands him up
Koppen moves upfield and forces the MLB to circle right away from the hole
Neal blocks the RLB out upfield
Ashworth blocks the RDE out
Givens blocks the FS upfield.
Analysis: Patrick breaks the tackle of the LDE fighting off Graham’s block and bulls over the LCB into the end zone.
2nd and 10 NE 29
Result: Screen Right, Patrick Pass, 32 yds.
Offense: 3 wide, 2 right, TE right,
Defense: 4-1 dime, CBs 9 yds off the line, S over TE, S to right of MLB, SS starting forward from deep left in blitz look.
Blocking: Kaczur gave the LDE a push outside, then released to chip the blitzing SS
Ashworth took the RDE inside and across the pocket
Hochstein and Koppen each stood up the DTs then released with Neal into the screen
Hochstein blocked the RDT who had started downfield and was chasing Patrick Pass from behind
Neal blocked the LDT who had dropped back in coverage
Koppen had his legs cut out by a DB
Givens was blocking on a CB, who eventually got off the block to make the tackle, but was unable to come up early to limit the yds
Graham made a great block upfield that kept a S from getting anywhere near the play
Branch came across the field chasing a CB, but was unable to get more then a hand on him.
Analysis: Pats had the perfect play for Denver’s aggression, with great blocking upfield.
|05-19-2006, 10:16 PM||#6|
Join Date: May 2005
Pass goes down to a sniper's bullet and gets a full dress military funeral.
His ST play has kept him on the roster. Plenty of replacements now. Faulk stays as 3rd down back, Mills replaces Pass.
I'm intrigued with the notion of Dillon and Maroney both in the backfield on goal-line-short ydg situations. Play-action, double hand-offs, etc. Do like the idea of Neal as FB, however.
Felger started his question, "Correct me if I'm wrong," BB quickly interjected, "I can't wait--"
``The officials now are evaluating the players and their performance, I mean, that's great,'' Belichick deadpanned. ``I can't say how much that means to me, really.''
|05-19-2006, 10:48 PM||#7|
Join Date: Sep 2004
Mills will make the team. What difference does his label make?
|05-19-2006, 10:58 PM||#8|
Join Date: Sep 2004
I don't know why some of you guys expect the 3rd string inactive TE to get reps at RB. Thomas will play, if he plays, at TE.
Pass will not get any reps, barring two injuries, if he makes the team. Mills is the fullback and a great receiver. He'll need to learn to block much better.
We pay Dillon $3M a year to carry the ball. He'll have his usual 1200+ yards.
Faulk is a fine 3rd down back.
Maroney will likely start on short yardage, and eventually switch roles with Dillon (maybe next year, maybe 2008).
So, I guess I'm still convinced that Pass will steal one of the last three spots, disappointing many here.
Last edited by mgteich; 05-19-2006 at 10:59 PM..
|05-20-2006, 12:03 AM||#9|
Join Date: Mar 2006
Pats1, I did wonder about Williams' involvement in the Boat Party. Other good info there. I'd also wonder what kind of surgery, and how he's coming along, but points taken.
As for my points, take another look. I have him behind Dillon and Maroney in most cases. In terms of a pass-catching RB, however, he's right up there with Faulk. In terms of a goal line back, if healthy, he's a great one to have.
As for Pass, you've established he had a good game. Singular. I am sure there were others. But he's never been able to fill in ably when Faulk and Dillon are both down, or to carry the load on every down if necessary, or to make any noise in short yardage situations.
I think numbers would bear me out on the comparison, but the most salient points you raised had more to do with Williams - who comes with big fat question marks - than with Pass, who is likely done as of this year.
|05-20-2006, 12:31 AM||#10|
Join Date: Sep 2004
I get the feeling it will come down to keeping Faulk or Pass...not both but 1 will stay.
I'd like to see, I hope that Heath Evans has improved his blocking and thus he knocks Pass out leaving Faulk for 1 more year.
Mills will get the year long turf toe injury during camp and we'll see him in 2007.