wcpatsfan

We don't need Gerard Warren to play like a #3 overall pick, we just need him to add something to the rotation every now and then.

Deus Irae

Multiple problems with this:

1.) I'm not bitter. I'm just analyzing a signing and giving my opinion on it, the same as you.

2.) If he's a JAG, he's unnecessary. The team already has JAGS for the interior of the D-line. Therefore....

3.) If he's nothing more than a backup DT, he's taking up a roster spot that could have been put to better use.

4.) He's a 4-3 one gap player, not a 3-4 two gap player. So, whether he's at DE or NT, he's stuck learning something new.

__________________
"The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."
- Marcus Aurelius

JackBauer

Not sure if Warren will stick. I like the idea of Lewis (running downs) and Wright (passing downs) at RDE, and I hope Deadrick can come on and contribute as the season progresses.

BradyFTW!

A) naive

or

B) not desperate to twist every possible tidbit of information into an anti-everyone else, pro-Belichick rant. Newsflash: Seymour didn't want to leave. He said from the get-go that he wanted to stay, but it wasn't his decision to make. Belichick traded him, and that's that. Could he have stuck around if he was willing to play for 20-30% below market value? Probably. Can you reasonably assume that he regrets his past based on a secondhand account of a suggestion that he may have made to another player? Not unless you're completely overwhelmed by confirmation bias.

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supafly

You often sound bitter, instead of simply disagreeing and moving on, you tend to break down various sentences as if you are some type of defense lawyer. What's wrong with taking the approach of saying "I don't really agree, but everyone has different opinions."---and moving on?

When you keep having multiple problems with every single thing that someone has to say, you become more embattled and bitter sounding. I guess I will now break down your various statements, as you always do.

Kind of like you are a pretend cyberspace defense lawyer on a secret mission.

"That's not a good example." ---I gave stats relative to the player we lost. If he has comparable or better stats to the player we lost, then my feelings are we'll be OK. We all understand they played 2 different systems and gap schemes. Maybe the numbers will be a little down due to the different systems, but I am willing to bet Bill Belichick realizes that.

"He doesn't fit well here in this system."---Also known as answers #2, #3, and #4. Again, I will trust Belichick and his assessment of the talent on this team, be it camp fodder, or a possible back up. I am willing to bet that BB knows more than we do about his fit in the system.

Here we go again with your "opinion" that he doesn't have any role here. With Brace a no-show, Pryor coming off of a rookie year, and Wright tending to play better in the NT than DE, why doesn't he fit here? Who are the JAGS? A bunch of 1st and 2nd year players. As many stated, he could be here for possible competition with Damione Lewis, as one of them can possibly step up and win the job. In a position that will demand 8-9 roster spots, we always need competition on the O and D lines. Especially during OTA's, mini camps, and training camp 2x a days.

Again, with your posting prowess, and experience as a fan, this should be common knowledge. More camp fodder and compeition is brought in on the lines, in the trenches, particularly in late spring--early summer. Fact.

First of all, here is a direct quote from Belichick on where he'll likely compete, It doesn't sound too much like DE to me.

“I don’t think you’re going to see him outside of the tackles very often,” Belichick said. “But from tackle to tackle, (he’s) done that. So he definitely has some versatility from both the left side and the right side, in different alignments in there, on both early downs and on passing downs.”



---------

This one belongs with #2. It's your personal opinion that Bill Belichick cannot determine talent value, or possible camp fodder/role playing competition. What would the problem be with taking up a roster spot through the summer? Maybe he's here to compete with Lewis, maybe he's here to take up the majority of the hits and be camp fodder? At any rate, why complain about a roster spot in the early days of May? There have been 1,000 variations over the years of multiple DL guys being on the roster, providing a breather during camp, and having the chance to show if they are patriot material. Considering he was signed for a bologna sandwich on a 1 yr deal, what the hell is the problem?

Also Considering we'll likely need 8-9 DL, show me where it would hurt to have competition right now.

T. Warren
Wilfork
Wright
Warren/Lewis
------<now comes a huge dropoff in talent> 2nd yr players/rookies
Pryor
Deadrick
Richards
Brace

There's 8 or 9 viable, potential players right there, as the others will likely falter.





Sort of like #2, and #3,-- #4 questions whether Belichick can determine a depth signing or competition player for a position that'll likely take up 8-9 players. I can only hope that he knows how to evaluate talent, and that he has some sort of resume that proves his worth as a talent evaluator. I wonder if maybe we should bring it to his attention that Gerard Warren played in a 1 gap 4-3 syatem? Maybe we should send him a letter.

Apparently he has some sort of plan, whether it be cutting him tomorrow, leaving him for OTA's, mini's, and TC---or actually allowing him the possibility of competing for a back up role. Whatever it is, I don't see why you care so much? Better yet, why you don't have faith that there's a plan in order?

Deus Irae

Amazingly, the homers didn't think I sounded as bitter when I was in more agreement with them. The sad reality is that Patriots homers view everything from a defensive lens. Any criticism is read as if it's a personal attack against a family member, rather than taken for what it generally is, which is simple disagreement. I call them as I see them.

Regarding the "multiple things", I just prefer to break down the points. It allows for some things to be agreed upon or dropped, even as you deal with the rest, and it also allows the different areas to be focused on.

As for the "different opinions", thing, I'll simply note that you could have taken the same approach, but you also chose not to do so.

__________________
"The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."
- Marcus Aurelius

Deus Irae

You compared stats of a career starter in 1 gap systems to a career backup in a 2 gap system who was forced into starting roles due to injury and, later, trade. Furthermore, had Green gotten the job done, he'd still be with the team. In other words, you've been trying to compare Warren to a player who couldn't get the job done, and somehow putting this forth as a good thing. It was a bad comparison.

Yes, here is the heart of the issue. "BB realizes/BB knows..."

Why post on a message board if your response is "BB realizes/BB knows..." every time?

Also, BB sure as hell didn't "know" about a lot of those 'fits' last year, and he apparently didn't "know" with AdT, just to point to one more example.

__________________
"The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."
- Marcus Aurelius

supafly

Fair observation, but to be honest, it kind of makes it hard to when someone is breaking down you every sentence. I think it's natural humanistic nature to want to explain yourself.

In a forum where there are threads ranging from, "should TB be traded?" to "should BB be fired?" I just didn't see the huge disagreement between whether or not G.Warren could be a viable JAG signing.

I have mentioned time and again that I have appreciated your objective viewpoints, and if anything, I have in some ways tried to keep an open mind like you do. You are one of 25 posters whom I try not to disagree with if possible, even when we are not on the same page.

In the big picture I can appreciate why you'd be slightly upset over a potential RDE replacement with a seasoned JAG. I have been looking at it from the other side of things, as I see him as simply camp competition with the possibility to step up and earn a role spot at times. As I stated, if he at 330 lbs is a potential RDE replacement, then I can only hope that someone beats him to the position, which is likely. I see him as a DT signed for depth, and simple competition, maybe even someone to take the brunt of 2x a days in the hot sun.

supafly

I think you know that I don't post that 'BB knows' everytime. One of the reasons that we generally don't butt heads is that I am likened to your views in the fact that I am not a homer, nor a chicken little. I like you, try to be objective regarding various issues, because every issue's different.

I think I'm just having a hard time understanding what you would of rather have happened? To my knowledge, there were not many realistic (monetary-wise) fits in the market regarding our potential RDE replacement, as I still don't think G.Warren has anything to do with this problem.

I believe someone else can be signed, or someone else such as Pryor, or Wright can play RDE, not to mention a battle of rookies/2nd yr players. There are lots of options that can be had.

As far as AD, he had a good yr in 07, then was having a decent yr when he got hurt in 08. He wasn't anything close to what he is currently, nor did he have anything close to as poor of a year as 09--so how can you really fault Belichick for screwing that up?

In 07, he had the versatility going for him, the t-shirt stuff which showed leadership in the lockerroom, and was just fine. In early 08, he had a good SB, then was even leading the team in sacks when he got hurt. There wasn't much talk, if any that AD was a malcontent up to Sept. 09, when everything started. I cannot see how you'd blame BB for not properly evaluating his talent?

If anything, I actually give BB props for removing a problem by nipping it in the bud before it could get any worse.

supafly

This is how I have been looking at the signing too.

He signed for peanuts, and can provide back up depth in case of injury. In a worse case scenario, he can take the brunt of 2 a days in the sun, and get beaten on in TC.

It's even possible, although unlikely, that BB can even try and use whatever raw skills made him a #3 overall pick in the first place--by using his strengths to our advantage. (while minding to, and watching for the weaknesses)

I don't see this any different than the Damione Lewis signing, or any of the hundreds of JAG signings that we've made in early spring or summer for OTA's, mini's and TC. If he steps up and provides a spark and shows competition for back up, fine. If he doesn't, then fine too. What's the major problem?