R_T26

I have faith in BB and Pioli...but they are not flawless. 2 of the last 4 years they have done pretty bad in FA, some of that can be attributed to not having a lot of room. But I hope they dont get to arrogant thinking they can get by with second level players. The reason they were able to bring in second tier fa's and be successfull was because they had a solid group around them beforehand. Its good when your adding complementary pieces to a harrison/milloy and law in the defensive backfield, or to Bruschi,Johnson, Mcginest in the LB corps, or some second tier recievers to Givens and Branch. But now the core guys are leaving. Its like having a bottle of ketchup 75% full and filling it up 25% with water, it will still be ketchup, but then make it 50-50, it still tastes like ketchup but watered down, then %25 ketchup 75%- water, you realize you should of bought a new bottle of ketchup a long time ago. What Im saying is if you go from Law/Harrison to Samual/ Hawkins, then T. Johnson/McGinest to Beisel/Brown etc. the team eventually wont be able to compete. The Patriots Dynasty was not built on a bunch of role players but a young team of studs:

Brady-24
Law-27
Milloy-27
Bruschi- 28
Willie-30

Those guys were all hitting their prime. What Im trying to say is we need to replace those guys with new studs or risk mediocrity.

Another reason I say this is because the redskins intend to aquire Lloyd and Randall-El, the Browns Jureviscious, were losing Givens and I see no replacement.

holyredeemer

Well said, I totally agree. Watered down ketchup really sux. So does a watered down football team. I just think the FA players they've been bringing in or trading for have been horrible. None have improved this team. Beisel, Brown, Starks, Scott, Davis....the list goes on and on for the last two yrs. Only two out of that group MIGHT improve and that's Beisel and Davis. IMO I wouldn't hold my breath on either one. Not to mention, they all seem to be watered down ball players. None of those guys are aggressive ass kickers. I know if they're in the NFL they gotta be tough, but none of our recent signings seem to be bringing that to the field with them.

primetime

Funny. Milloy was here for one Super Bowl, Law only played in two (and has hit 30, the year of death for corners). Bruschi was 28 during the first Super Bowl run... and 30 during the second. And McGinest was 32 for the second, and before the first was almost unanimously considered over the hill and unproductive. The first Super Bowl was a fluke, more or less. Keep in mind the running backs have never been "young studs" but rather 30-plus washouts of other teams (aside from Faulk, who is a 3rd down back)... and when it comes to the offseason recently, how about Colvin, Dillon, and Rodney? Rodney came to us after his 30th birthday, Dillon was 29. Brady's main target in the first Super Bowl was Troy Brown, who was on the wrong side of 30 even back then. He had no stud tight end to throw to. The only superstar on the team was Ty Law, and Vinatieri if you could consider a kicker a star. It took a couple years after the first Super Bowl for Brady to establish himself as the best QB in the business.

What about veteran role players like Bobby Hamilton? Kevin Faulk? Christian Fauria? Don Davis? Je'Rod Cherry?

I think you're not looking close enough to see the system behind the Patriots successes. Don't look at the stars, look at the players around the stars. The Colts had a lot of young studs too... see how many rings they have?

flutie2phelan

That's a chilling thought, RT. But i see what you mean.

I'm not concerned about shedding established DBs ... or LBs.
You can see reinforcements galloping to the rescue,
in the draft ... in FA ... and already on the roster.

But the WR cupboard is pretty bare.
Perhaps THAT is why the bidding for Givens may have risen too high
for even the cap-space-rich Browns.

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holyredeemer

none fo the guys I mentioned in my complaint are stars. They are supposed to be part of that backgroound of business that you refer to. And they never panned out. Those are the players that are going to keep the pats competetive. However, the guys you mentioned that the Pats have brought in were already stars and low risk investments. The pats role players, you must admit, have gone downhill and sooner or later it will catch up to this team. Oh, and Dillon hasnt done anything but had one great season. Cannot really judge him for a few more yrs. Antowain Smith had one good yr. too. remember?

R_T26

Primetime your missing my point. The years the Pats were proactive in FA or trades tended to be their best. Harriosn, Colvin, and Dillon were not considered second tier players, Im talking about the beisels, starks, hayes, of the world. I know a lot of people will disagree with me, but I would love to see a Charles Woodson in a Pats uni, though he's been hurt, he still has plenty left and would thrive in a winning situation, but instead the Pats will get someone like Torrie Cox. The Pats have $17 million, try to be proactive then just waiting for the leftovers.

ayjackson

really, the superbowls started with a man named Brady....he's the ketchup....everyone else is a role player

RayClay

Warren Wilfork Seymour Brady Graham Watson Branch j. Green Koppen Mankins Kazur

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rookBoston

I dont buy it. The Pats are always proactive in FA. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

Dillon and Washington worked. Starks didnt. Andre Davis did. The same people that brought us Beisel brought us Vrabel. They had the same resume coming from their former teams. Hayes was a bust but the same search process discovered Patten from even more obscure places.

Woodson is a primadonna. He should be a perfect fit in Oakland and if he cant fit in there, there's no way we'd be interested. BB's not afraid to make a big move for the right player. But it wont be Woodson.

This Moulds thing, tho... that would be great.

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"We want to build a big, strong, tough, smart, fast, disciplined football team that will consistently compete for a championship."
-- Scott Pioli, from the Patriots scouting manual

RayClay

Just because the Pats haven't fanned on a high dollar acquisition doesn't mean it can't happen. It does to many teams and wrecks their chances for years.

If Pats are sure about someone they go after them, (Rosie, Rodney).

Otherwise they prefer drafting and low risk free agents.

I don't want gamblers in my front office.

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