MaxVonDoom

No matter what anyone thinks about Branch and how the Pats fared in the deal you have got to admit Seattle got burned bad! A first round draft pick a huge contract and they get an underproductive injury prone showboat.

Ochmed Jones

Ouch! that is a very strong comment. Will Holgrem do us another favor similar to that now that he is in Cleveland?

robertweathers

Wrong. Pats and Branch played tough and the Pats thought Branch would cave and when he didn't they had caldwell and gabriel starting.

Of course. We all would have. Problem is Branch wouldn't have been happy.

Thats the effect. The cause was that they were about $15m apart in guranteed $ and neither budged.

MAKE A TRADE DURING THE DRAFT for players better than Reche Caldwell and Doug Gabriel. Read much?

Of course it is. Hes the GM. They are not #1 and #2 WRs.

It's all documented. Pats position. Branch's position. Salary requirements. When the negotiations took place and what the Pats had for WRs and how the scrambled for 3 months looking for someone who could play.

__________________
“I'm not really concerned about the other 31 teams,” - Bill Belichick

"If a player has talent and doesn't succeed, that means that they either don't want to be successful or I have failed as a coach." - Bill Belichick

MaxVonDoom

Strong but very true

celticboy04

Greetings,

It is funny those two would be mouthing off, considering their play this season. Esp T.J., Cincinnati was practically horrible with him last season, now they just one a division championship without him doing anything on the field for them this season. As for Branch, worst season of his career and is so ****y that it has led to a delusion!!
Shalom,
Celticboy04

emoney_33

What the heck are you talking about? Branch was under contract, end of story. After Branch refused to honor the contract HE signed, there was no alternative options at WR, so they did the best they could with what was available.



boohoo, don't sign a contract you can't keep. He wouldn't have given the Patriots money back if he had a career ending injury in 2004.

The effect? Do you still not understand that he was UNDER CONTRACT.

We still had Branch and he was still under contract. As well you have no idea what moves they TRIED to make during the draft. You can sit there and just give off meaningless "make a trade" suggestions, but for who? With who? At what cost? What do we get back?



Branch was under contract... again you fail to understand that the GMs hands were tied. And then as a GM you don't go out and trade away the future for a right-now #1 or #2 WR. You don't go overpay someone or pay too much in a trade. And the NEXT YEAR they got Moss and Welker at great values. But yea you know better...

We all know it was a bad situation. Your claim is that BB played it POORLY. But your claim is entirely based on your hindsight of how Branch refused to HONOR HIS CONTRACT. Not only that but you assume they didn't do their due diligence prior to, during and after Branch holding out.

robertweathers

Doesn't matter if he had a contract. You can still choose to get out of it if you want to bad enough. What part of that don't you get? Branch wanted an extension badly, the Pats threw some numbers at him and Branch got all pissed.Players shoot their way out of town all the time- and BB knows it. Apparently, you don't.

Horrible example. If injured, he would have gotten NFLPA insurance, an injury settlement from the team and his contract would have been terminated. Do your homework.

And you don't understand how the real world operates. Branch is a slime. We can agree on that. During negotiations, One or two things happened. BB thought that either Branch would keep his word and play in 06 or the Pats had the leverage to make him play 2006. Either way, BB didn't manage his risk properly.

Again, plenty of options better than Doug Gabriel and Reche Caldwell were out there as your #1 and #2. They knew Givens was gone and knew the Branch extension would be a war.


Not sure where this is coming from. Never said overpay someone or give up the future...


B/c they knew their receivers sucked.


never said that they didnt do their due dilligence. Im saying that they didnt do enough to manage the risk that they were starting the 06 season with Caldwell and Gabriel.

__________________
“I'm not really concerned about the other 31 teams,” - Bill Belichick

"If a player has talent and doesn't succeed, that means that they either don't want to be successful or I have failed as a coach." - Bill Belichick

emoney_33

Why don't you detail all the steps that BB took to "manage his risk". And then detail all the steps how he SHOULD have managed his risk. Specific exact details. None of this general "should have made a trade at draft" mumbo jumbo. You tell me what he should have done differently that would not only have made the 2006 squad better but also wouldn't take away from the 07, 08, 09 and future squads.

Give an example of a #1 and #2 you would have signed. Then detail whose money you would have taken to get them under the cap. What draft picks would they have cost and what current (or 07/08) players would it have costed.

Doing your due diligence is DOING ENOUGH. Just because the results weren't optimal does not mean there was a better alternative. That's the fact you can't seem to grasp.

They spend to the cap every year, and to get a #1/#2 to replace Branch/Givens you know they have to make changes elsewhere to get those #1/#2 under the cap not only for 2006 but however long their contracts are.

Stop assuming that there actually WERE better alternatives. Maybe there were but you act as if there was just a flood of 2006 receiver talent/value we turned a blind eye towards because they gambled it all away on Branch.

Now I'm done until you can offer up specifics of what BB and the front office should have done instead of this armchair fantasy "should have gotten a replacement" hindsight.

robertweathers

Nothing mumbo-jumbo about it. You deal Branch prior to or during the draft for a close to #1 or #2 receiver and over the ensuing months continue to upgrade the position (which they kinda did and got lucky with Gaffney). You are over-complicating this.

Quite frankly, I thought Andre Davis and Tim Dwight were better than Caldwell and Gabriel and knew the offense. They didn't sign for big dollars either when the left for NYJ and I think HOU...

Absolutely not.


Huh? Just because the results were what the were, doesn't mean that they could have been improved prior. Your point?


No argument with the Pats spending. Just with this specific situation. But I see you think that this organization walks on water.... Very typical of you.

Trades happen in the NFL you know...Well, maybe you didn't..

Good. I wouldn't want to hurt your feelings anymore and actually say that "THE PATRIOTS SOMETIMES MAKE MISTAKES". It happens rarely, but they do.

Pleasure as always, emoney_33.

__________________
“I'm not really concerned about the other 31 teams,” - Bill Belichick

"If a player has talent and doesn't succeed, that means that they either don't want to be successful or I have failed as a coach." - Bill Belichick

emoney_33

WHO? Why do you just assume that anyone was willing to trade a #1 or #2? Who the heck was available? Did BB shop him around? Did he attempt to get any other receivers for him? No but you would have traded him before or during the draft because you don't have to deal with specifics and it's easy to just throw that out there.

Second of all you do realize that by doing this, you are in effect trading Brandon Meriweather as well right since that's who we got with Seattle's pick. So you hurt the future team's defense so that you can replace Branch early because you determine he is at risk for NOT honoring his contract? Trading Branch that early for less than they got from Seattle would be STUPID, period. But it's the kind of short-sighted now-now-now attitude that is far too common around here.


no argument with the Pats spending? You have to spend differently in 06 and 07 and 08 and 09 if you go out and replace Branch. You are arguing they should have gotten a #1 and/or a #2 in 06 prior to or during the draft. A #1/#2 COSTS MONEY. Thus you don't get the same result as you have today and the money has to be adjusted and taken away from SOMEONE to pay for those guys on 2006. But again your hindsight argument is just really strong here, where's the specifics again?

Who knows how rare or how often they actually make mistakes, hell they probably make a lot more than we know. If you want to declare a specific situation a mistake you better be prepared to back it up, which you aren't.