Run out of the shotgun? - New England Patriots Forums

***convertedpatsfan*** · 11-10-2009, 06:11 AM

Meant to post this earlier. It's an interesting tidbit from a TMQ article (though the first half of the article drives me crazy):

Indianapolis Colts vs New Orleans Saints would be a wonderful Super Bowl - ESPN

Quote:

In other football news, it would be weird to wake up and find your team has the league's leading rusher, plus the No. 1 rushing attack in terms of average gain -- a spectacular 5.5 yards per carry -- yet also find your team is 1-6. That's how the Tennessee Titans find themselves after hosting the Jacksonville Jaguars in a game that produced a combined 522 yards rushing and 238 yards passing. It would be weird to wake up and realize you had rushed for 177 yards on just eight carries Sunday, yet only touched the ball once in the fourth quarter. That's how Maurice Jones-Drew finds himself right now.

Those 522 combined rushing yards did not come from power sets; on nearly every big run in the Jax-Flaming Thumbtacks contest, the offense was in a spread formation and the action was a draw play. Good blocking and sloppy tackling were the reasons for rushes of 89, 80, 79 and 52 yards. But tactical evolution was a reason, too. Not long ago, many coaches would have said the reason quarterbacks aren't always in the shotgun -- it's easier to throw if you're scanning the field from the snap rather than wasting time dropping back -- is that teams can't run from a shotgun formation. Increasingly the reverse is true -- teams run better from the shotgun than from conventional sets. Linemen have gotten so much bigger that there simply isn't room to run from a conventional set against a defense putting seven players in the box. Spread formations make it impossible to load seven defenders into the box, thereby creating running room. They also distract the defense into worrying so much about the pass that the rush becomes an afterthought. Chris Johnson's 89-yard touchdown run came on third-and-4, with the defense expecting a pass; Johnson was just 15 yards downfield when he'd already gotten by all but one Jacksonville defender! Sunday's Jacksonville at Tennessee game meant nothing to the standings, but may have been a preview of the next big fad in football: the rush-oriented spread offense.

I'm wondering if Maroney might benefit from this approach. It'd definitely give him more space to work with, and fewer holes to choose from, so less dancing on his part. And with Moss and Welker spread out, with maybe Watson to help stretch the field, the defense has to be thinking pass.

The Pats are in shotgun almost half the time, but it's usually a pass. I can't find numbers on it, but I seem to recall Maroney running out of the shotgun with success in 2007. There have been a few attempts this season, but not many that I can recall.

It'd also keep the defense honest on the pass out of the shotgun. I hate to see the Pats go with an empty backfield. I mean, everyone knows it will probably be a pass when the Pats go shotgun. But at least give them a split second of hesitation with a back there.

I'm sure this topic has been brought up in the past. And I'm not suggesting we fit the offense to Maroney. But I wouldn't mind seeing it a bit more.

***Rob0729*** · 11-10-2009, 07:12 AM

The Pats have been running out of the shotgun for years. And they have been using running plays out of shotgun quite a bit. It is usually Faulk who runs them though.

***maverick4*** · 11-10-2009, 08:06 AM

The Pats do have success when they run out of shot gun on draws... which over the past 3 years is only about 15% of the time from shot gun.

FortressX · 11-10-2009, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by convertedpatsfan

The Pats are in shotgun almost half the time, but it's usually a pass. I can't find numbers on it, but I seem to recall Maroney running out of the shotgun with success in 2007.

I think the 2007 Colts game they did it a lot.
Keeps Freeney from charging in.

***convertedpatsfan*** · 11-10-2009, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob0729

The Pats have been running out of the shotgun for years. And they have been using running plays out of shotgun quite a bit. It is usually Faulk who runs them though.

Sorry, I shouldn't post before my first cup of coffee.

I was really focusing on Maroney this morning, and how this might be a good way to maximize his abilities, but you're absolutely correct about Faulk, and I should have included that in the OP. Faulk's had a lot of success, and he's limited to only 3rd downs.

I was looking for some stats this morning without much luck, but then again I was braindead. But I really do remember Maroney running out of the shotgun a lot in 2007 compared to this year, and he did really well out of it. Not sure if the numbers support that though.

unoriginal · 11-11-2009, 04:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by convertedpatsfan

I'm wondering if Maroney might benefit from this approach. It'd definitely give him more space to work with, and fewer holes to choose from, so less dancing on his part. And with Moss and Welker spread out, with maybe Watson to help stretch the field, the defense has to be thinking pass.

Actually shotgun draws present the running back with more holes to choose from; defensive lineman pick their rush lanes and the offensive lineman get control as best they can, so the hole could be anywhere, and there could be multiple holes. It can be very confusing and even Faulk sometimes will pinball off his own blockers and go nowhere.

Hence why the Pats use an experienced back like Faulk for the draw most of the time, besides blitz pickup and receiving ability.

***convertedpatsfan*** · 11-11-2009, 06:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unoriginal

Actually shotgun draws present the running back with more holes to choose from; defensive lineman pick their rush lanes and the offensive lineman get control as best they can, so the hole could be anywhere, and there could be multiple holes. It can be very confusing and even Faulk sometimes will pinball off his own blockers and go nowhere.

Hence why the Pats use an experienced back like Faulk for the draw most of the time, besides blitz pickup and receiving ability.

Wouldn't it be similar to the zone blocking runs, but with less traffic? But yes, it's definitely not as easy as I made it sound heh

I also wonder why Maroney hasn't been utilized in the passing game much. He caught 22 balls in his rookie season and never come close to that since.

Faulk is much better at blitz pick up, but if they tried it out more than just third down, blitzing wouldn't be as frequent.

Synovia · 11-11-2009, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by convertedpatsfan

It'd definitely give him more space to work with, and fewer holes to choose from, so less dancing on his part.

Fewer holes to choose from? Too many holes isn't the problem. The problem is that most of the time, there aren't any holes.

TheComeback · 11-11-2009, 10:49 AM

I thought we did a great job running out of the shotgun last year. Faulk was earning something like 6.3 ypc.

This year, I don't think it plays to Maroney's strengths to run out of the gun. He hasn't consistently shown the good vision needed, and he doesn't have the necessary explosion that Kevin Faulk does. I think Fred Taylor would be a perfect fit for running out of the gun when (or if) he comes back.

Even the law firm might be a better option that Maroney who, despite the clamoring of posters on this forum, has not ever struck me as a speed or finesse back, but more of a grinder with some cutback ability.

He really isn't that fast for an RB--if you want to see fast, check out Leon Washington or Ronnie Brown. When Maroney gets his long runs, it's because he's found a lot of open space.

What I like about Maroney is the power he's shown, at times dragging linebackers for a few extra yards, running through arm tackles, and pushing the pile for a first down. I believe one of the reasons he doesn't usually run with a fullback is because of his physical style, which has also led to some injuries.

Remember that play I think in 2007 where Maroney and one of the OL pushed a group of defenders like 8-10 yards for a first down? The guy has power, he just needs to work on his vision. And the oline needs to block for him more consistently like they did on Sunday.