NFP: Lombardi shreds Eric Mangini (merged) - Page 6 - New England Patriots Forums

***MoLewisrocks*** · 11-04-2009, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimmyjames

The problem with the Browns lies squarely on the shoulders of owner Randy Lerner. And things don't look to improve any time soon. Don't forget that the Browns are still paying out contracts to Romeo and Phil Savage though 2011. Mangini got a four year deal so even firing him would keep him on the books through 2013. How much money will thay have to get any real FO or HC talent?

The Browns play in a stacked division. Pitt and Baltimore are not going to get terrible any time soon and Cincinnati at least has a solid foundation of players for a few more years. So even if they fire Mangini, I don't see any of the the big name coaches - Holmgren, Shanahan, Cowher or Gruden coming in. Which means they are going to have to hire an unproven College coach or NFL coordinator which is what got them into this mess in the first place - ie: Butch Davis, Romeo Crennel.

Mangini at least seemingly has a plan in place, but can't get his players to play for him. If you are on a losing team, you have to at least buy into teh system - something I don't think Mangini can accomplish.

Priority one for the Browns has to be the hiring of a true head of Football Operations that Mangini answers to. But I fear the Browns fans are stuck with the rat for a while longer. It's a shame, because those fans really do deserve better.

I'm not sure they do after reading the reaction the meeting between Lerner and his fans elicited. They're absolving him and pronouncing him an owner who really cares and just wants to win. I fear there are smarter dogs in some real pounds.

***Disco Volante*** · 11-04-2009, 01:44 PM

Arrive
Trade away best players
Leave

BionicPatriot · 11-04-2009, 02:41 PM

I'll never understand what anyone sees in the guy either.

He was terrible in 05'. I remember BB saying in an article recently 05 was the heaviest he had to invest in his own time on defense. Obviously it's because it was the only time the D was so bad he had to demote his guy, but he still gave him a chance. I remember that defense under Mangini. Aaron Brooks lit them up, whoever was QBing for the Dolphins at the time, everyone.

I think maybe the reason Bill was so mad was because even though Mangini sucked, he still gave him a chance to keep his job. To go to the enemy that very season is a huge sign of **** you to the guy who just saved your ass. I think that's something a lot of us didn't see and could explain why Bill was so upset he left.

Even last season, he lost to Matt Cassel in his first game as a starter at home. Big win on the road or not, that loss was unexcusable for the Jets. It ended up costing them their season. That team was stacked compared to us last season, yet he lost control of his team. While McDaniels took a nobody at QB and nearly led the offense to the playoffs (Regardless how they finished, I can't fault them for missing the playoffs. 11-5 without Brady is amazing, it was just bad luck)

Point is, McDaniels has shown the ability to do it big in 07. He showed the ability to develop a QB both last and this season. He is now showing he can lead a team of subpar talent and coach them enough to contend. Imagine once they get loaded? Mangini on the other hand, has shown nothing.

fillylabinga · 11-04-2009, 07:11 PM

@lamafist, you make a lot of good points, but I'm missing the central thesis. What is the conclusion that we're jumping to? That Mangini isn't necessarily a worse coach than BB?

While I certainly agree that their situations don't make for an apples-to-apples comparison there is as much evidence to compare Mangini and BB as there is to compare any other 2 coaches in the NFL.

***Mike the Brit*** · 11-04-2009, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoLewisrocks

I'm not sure they do after reading the reaction the meeting between Lerner and his fans elicited. They're absolving him and pronouncing him an owner who really cares and just wants to win. I fear there are smarter dogs in some real pounds.

Lerner also owns a UK soccer team, Aston Villa. They hired a terrific manager (one with a high reputation for intelligence and integrity but also someone who doesn't take well to being pushed around) and he has left him to get on with it while making every effort to relate to the fans. It's very hard to break into the "Big Four" of the Premier League (Man. U., Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool) but Aston Villa are coming close. Here is an article from last season that is very admiring of Lerner:

Randy Lerner's stewardship at Aston Villa has vital lessons for FA Cup opponents Everton | Sport | The Observer

If that's true, it's slightly surprising that his football team is such a mess.

***IcyPatriot*** · 11-04-2009, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R_T26

Diner morning news: Kokinis never had a chance | National Football Post

great article, interesting to hear that mangini was relieved of his dc duties during the 2005 season.

Old news ... very old news that he was benched ... that was why he jumped at the chance to leave, Only woody was stupid enough to do that.

***Disco Volante*** · 11-04-2009, 10:46 PM

What's up with the idea that poor Mangini had no talent on the offense he took over?

Recent first round draft picks....

2004: Kellen Winslow (#6) [Pro-Bowler]
2005: Braylon Edwards (#3) [Pro-Bowler]
2007: Joe Thomas (#3) [Pro-Bowler]
2007: Brady Quinn (#22)

Trade away two of them and give up on Brady Quinn after 3 starts this season.

zoostation · 11-04-2009, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PatsFanSince74

Had anyone else ever heard that about Mangenius' being demoted in his last season with the Pats?

In the superbowl against the Eagles you will notice Belichick goes off on Mangini as the secondary gave up an easy touchdown (Greg Lewis if I remember correctly) without taking much time off the clock (late in the forth).

GrogansArmy · 11-04-2009, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HEY BRO! WHAT UP?

Every time I hear him explain why his team lost in post game interviews, I ask myself " How and why is he still a head coach?" Even though I was wrong the first time, I will predict it again, Mangini will never be a head coach in the NFL again.

I'm not so sure about him never coaching in the NFL again. There's always someone willing to take a chance. Hell even some Bills fans would take him:

Would you take Mangini - Buffalo Bills Forums

"It hurts to say this, but I think I would.
I really despise him, but he is a young man-genious that could grow into a job "

***SoCal Pmen*** · 11-04-2009, 11:32 PM

Its a shame this had to happen in Cleveland. Hard to root against that town. Why couldn't he still be the HC of the NYJ. This would have made this season even more enjoyable and entertaining.