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In my boredom, I'm fighting an idiotic point on the Jaguars board.
Jags_Beach said...
Quote:
A. Samuel
E. Hobbs
A. Hawkins (been playing safety with wilson)
T. Brown
H. Poteat
How many teams in the league would your CB
starters actually start for if they were on the market?
Enough with all the SB ring talk, none of that matters at this point this is hardly the same team...
pats1 said....
Quote:
You, sir, are an idiot.
Hardly the same team. Dumb, dumb statement there. Shows your lack of any football education whatsoever.
Who held Peyton Manning to 3 points last year?
Randall Gay - an undrafted rookie
Asante Samuel - a 2nd year nickelback
Eugene Wilson - a 2nd year converted CB
Rodney Harrison - leader who passed his hitting skills down to Geno and Asante
Troy Brown - WR for 12 or so years
Earthwind Moreland - street free agent
Hank Poteat - street free agent
Je'Rod Cherry - street free agent
Antwan Harris - street free agent
Don Davis - True LB, safety fill-in.
This year...
Ellis Hobbs - 3rd round draft pick playing (per SI's re-draft) as a mid-first rounder. Takes Gay's place
Asante Samuel - has played to last year's level
Eugene Wilson - has played to last year's level
Artrell Hawkins - has been very impressive as essentially's Rodney's replacement
James Sanders - playing very well as of late as the dime back, was injured early
Hank Poteat - playing better than last year
Michael Stone - playing great on special teams and was OK starting
Bam Childress - signed off the practice squad as a KR/WR last week and played CB.
Who supplemented these Patriot DBs?
2004 - DE - Jarvis Green (Seymour was injured in the Colts and Steelers games)
2005 - DE - Richard Seymour - one of the best defensive linemen in the game. Can shed 2 blocks and make the tackle, or occupy two blockers, huge, also has the speed to chase down
QBs, now has 3 rings and that valuable playoff experience
2004 - NT - Vince Wilfork - as a rookie, he was groomed by Traylor
2005 - NT - Vince Wilfork - clog in the middle, has improved since last year, now has 1 ring
and that valuable playoff experience
2004 - DE - Ty Warren - played pretty well
2005 - DE - Ty Warren - is a run-stopping machine and also is a great rusher, now has 2
rings and that valuable playoff experience
2004 - OLB - Willie McGinest - run-stopping machine, tons of playoff experience, savvy vet,
quick pass rusher
2005 - OLB - Willie McGinest - has even stepped it up a little since last year, now has 3 rings, plenty of playoff experience
2004 - ILB - Tedy Bruschi - leader of defense, run-stopping machine, turnover catalyst
2005 - ILB - Tedy Bruschi - hasn't lost a single step, 3 rings under the belt, savvy vet with
playoff experience
2004 - ILB - Roman Phifer/Ted Johnson - were switched around depending on the game
2004 - ILB - Mike Vrabel - has made the perfect transition inside and has been the most
consistent Patriot defender so far this year - run stopper and can pass rush from the outside
2004 - OLB - Mike Vrabel/Rosevelt Colvin - Colvin was still recovering from the 2003 hip
injury
2005 - OLB - Rosvelt Colvin - is fully recovered and is a speedy beast out there, laying siege on any QB
2004 - CB - Randall Gay - played great as an undrafted rookie
2005 - CB - Ellis Hobbs - playing past his potential and has been an INT master as of late
2004 - CB - Asante Samuel - had to step in after being a nickelback in 2003, performed nicely
2005 - CB - Asante Samuel - has his ups and downs, is a hard hitting corner
2004 - FS - Eugene Wilson - hard-hitting, great cover safety
2005 - FS - Eugene Wilson - has stayed dependable despite the loss of Rodney
2004 - SS - Rodney Harrison - hard-hitting leader with instinct
2005 - SS - Artrell Hawkins/Michael Stone/James Sanders - as a combo, they've been pulling themselves closer to filling Rodney's gap
No change there. Injuries (Seymour, Bruschi, 7 DBs) had the defense off to a slow start, but
they have been a brick wall to any running back as of late
Looking at the offense....
2004 - QB - Tom Brady - led his team to the Super Bowl with his usual playoff masterpieces
2005 - QB - Tom Brady - made a much better case for the MVP holding the offense together through many injuries, has only gotten better, and is unfathomably dangerous in the playoffs
2004 - RB - Corey Dillon/Kevin Faulk/Patrick Pass - trio was healthy and switched in and out to change the looks and was able to pound away at defenses as well as use the short passing
game
2005 - RB - Corey Dillon/Kevin Faulk/Patrick Pass - injuries have taken their toll, but back together the ground game has seen much improvement, and they too are a reliable group in the playoffs
2004 - WR - Deion Branch/David Givens/Troy Brown - Brady spreads the ball around to the quick Branch, the big Givens, and the reliable Brown. No favorite receiver = defensive miss-matches
2005 - WR - Deion Branch/David Givens/Troy Brown - some injuries have left a minimal
mark and all three have stayed constant in their role, becoming part of one of the best offenses in the league
2004 - TE - Daniel Graham/Christian Fauria/Jed Weaver - Watson was hurt early, placing more burden on Graham, who performed admirably.
2005 - TE - Daniel Graham/Ben Watson/Christian Fauria - Brady adds these 3 weapons to the offense, again with the ball being spread around almost evenly. Watson is a 4.40 40 speedster with great size. Graham has the size and some decent speed, with great hands. Fauria is a red-zone extrordinaire with his leaping ability.
2004 - OL - Light, Andruzzi, Koppen, Neal, Gorin - this line had the no-names but with the
great coaching of Dante Scarnecchia, performed very well.
2005 - OL - Kaczur, Mankins, Hochstein, Neal, Ashworth/Gorin - injuries took their toll (Light, Koppen) but Kaczur and Mankins played above their rookie status and Hochstein
moved over and hasn't missed a beat/snap at center. Ashworth's health has given the Pats
more options. Yet again, Dante coaches up a storm.
Proven playoff experience. Pats have it. Jaguars don't.
Jags Beach said....
Quote:
Do me a favor sir we have a code of conduct regarding name calling, I suggest you read it and follow its guidelines before making a fool of yourself in my forum again. Remember it is better to be thought a fool... ;-)
Now before you meander any further on another one of your brilliant self deluted rant's about me being an idiot lacking any football education whatsoever, please show me how many starters on this roster that actually possess 3 SB rings.
How many coordinators do you have left?
If this team is the 3 time world champs, well show me where all the 3 time world champ starters of Super Bowl XXXVI are.
I count 6, who am I missing here? Clearly there have got to be more starters than this on your team to call yourselves 3 time Super Bowl Team.
Two starters on offense
Patrick Pass
Brady
4 starters on Defense
Richard Semour
Willie McGinest
Tedy Bruschi
Mike Vrabel
How can I forget...
Vinatieri
Paxon
Face it, this may be the same franchise that won 3 SB's, but you have got to admit that it is a different team of players and coaches altogether. What you all had over 40 different starters this year, 6 of your DB are on IR. Please get a grip on reality, this is not the same team that won Super Bowl XXXVI. turn
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You're point on how many players are left from XXXVI is a good one. The only thing is, the point is more advantageous towards my case.
What, would the Patriots have won 3 if they had Anthony Pleasant, Rod Rutledge, Charles Johnson, Greg Robinson-Randall, Bobby Hamilton, Brandon Mitchell, Tebucky Jones, Otis Smith, and Roman Phifer still around?
I think not.
The key to winning consistently is constantly upgrading personnel. Look at the 2002-2005 drafts for the Patriots.
How about some of these names, who have been components in winning Super Bowls, and have replenished the veterans of old with youth that have been proven winners:
Deion Branch.
David Givens.
Daniel Graham.
Jarvis Green.
Eugene Wilson.
Asante Samuel.
Dan Koppen.
Ty Warren.
Vince Wilfork.
Bethel Johnson.
Ben Watson.
Ellis Hobbs.
Logan Mankins.
Nick Kaczur.
All of those are either proven starters or prominent backups.
To say they aren't the Patriots of old due to the fact they don't have the same roster as in 2001 is absolutely asinine. This isn't the '70s Steelers or '60s Packers where free agency and the salary cap were absent and the key the winning succesively was keeping your stars, or even whole roster, intact for as long as possible.
You can't win in this league like that.
The Patriots have worked well with free agency too.
Rodney Harrison.
Mike Vrabel.
Josh Miller.
Rosevelt Colvin.
Corey Dillon (trade).
Christian Fauria.
Tyrone Poole.
The personnel system is still the same. Only players that fit the system are accepted. Belichick's personal system is the same. He has coaches and players that buy into his concepts. Through each of the 3 Super Bowl seasons, there have been inevitable loses in both personnel and coaching phases of the game. 2001: QB coach Dick Rehbein dies suddenly just before training camp. 2001: Charlie Weis misses almost the entire season after near-death gastric bypass complications. 2003 and 2004: Coaches deal with having a record number of starters due to injuries. Those injuries have been potent even to the extent of this season over the past few years for the Pats, and they have, along with other issues, overcome them valiantly. Hell, you can even throw Drew's injury in there, which almost ended his career, despite the outcome (Brady...)
The teams builds off not only their personal philosophies, but the core:
"Face it, this may be the same franchise that won 3 SB's, but you have got to admit that it is a different team of players and coaches altogether. What you all had over 40 different starters this year, 6 of your DB are on IR. Please get a grip on reality, this is not the same team that won Super Bowl XXXVI. turn"
He is right this is Not the same team. BB and Tommy have said that many
times over this past season.
You might assume that the PATs this year have some significant constants
such as Tommy, BB, much of the defense and offense and gives us hope
they will rise to the occassion as they did in years past.
However there are differences. There is no guarantee that this years playoff
team will be as good and in years past.
I don't know what point was trying to be made but whatever happened
in years or even months ago doesn't matter. How good or bad they WERE,
past tense, doesn't matter
.... what matters is how PATs plays Saturday night and how the JAGs play.
__________________
"Some guys play in all-star games, some guys don't. I don't know who picks all those all-star teams. In all honesty, I don't know who picks the combine, for that matter," Belichick said. "How does (Miami-Ohio offensive lineman Brandon) Brooks not get invited to the combine? How did Vollmer not get invited to the combine? I don't know. We can't really worry about that. We just have to try to evaluate them the best we can."
In my boredom, I'm fighting an idiotic point on the Jaguars board.
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