Pats Fanatic

You do know that Halas was a player in the 20's for the Bears right. He held the record for the longest fumble return for a TD in team history until Mike Brown broke it a few years ago.
It was an OK list but people aways forget about Raymond Clayborn and yes Gino deserves to be on the list.

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DarrylS

This is the "old school" list, Julius Adams is a very deserving player who played during the "lean years".. Steve Nelson??? A top ten is very difficult.. a top 25 might be easier..

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BradyFTW!

For the latter point, Vinatieri wasn't particularly great at kickoffs. A friend of the family is a scout in the Pats organization, and he said that one of the factors in letting Vinatieri walk was exactly that. Not a decisive point or anything, I wouldn't think, but it did factor in. Even when Vinatieri was doing kickoffs, he wasn't pinning the opposition down deep in its own territory. There were 10 other guys out there making the tackle, who certainly deserve some share of the credit.

For the first point, I'd just say that the NT that's dominating the LOS, or the LT who's keeping the heat off of Brady's blind side, or the pass rusher who's bringing the heat and keeping the opposing offense from getting in rhythm... I don't see how you could argue that a kicker has a stronger impact on the game than those factors. A good player in these positions will directly affect the outcome of the game, to use your words, on at least as many plays as the kicker did. And for the rest of the plays where he's on the field... well, he's out on the field contributing, which the kicker, through no fault of his own, isn't.

It's fine, I expect my opinion is in the minority here, and it's a difficult one because I'm not sure how to argue it factually outside of snap count. It's more a principle thing, which is why I don't intend to argue it too hard and admit I may be totally off base on this one.

efin98

Then we will have to agree to disagree on the value then. I value his leg's ability to score highly so much that to me he's in the top 10 at around 9 or 10 but he's still in there.

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Fencer

Vinateri is not one of the top 10 most valuable players in Patriots history.

But he did make 4 of the most important plays in team history. (Snow Bowl x 2, Super Bowl x 2), 2-3 of which are pretty iconic.

By some sets of criteria, that -- plus some general stellar play -- earns him a high ranking.

State

Stanley Morgan needs to go #7. Period. The man was a deep threat. His movement was poetry. Great WR.

Batman

I'm sorry his leg didn't win two super bowls for us?

Nor did his 140 points in the 04 season help us get to that superbowl

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signbabybrady

my top ten

1 Brady (duh)
2 Gino (face of the franchise for 50 years and yes his time in the booth gets him 2 unfair maybe but true IMO)
3 Andre Tippett (maybe he is so high because he was my first favorite player but deserving)
4 Drew Bledsoe (his stardom was part of a triumbrate that brought the Patriot team from obscurity to what it is now)
5 Hannah ( outside of Brady probably the most talented Patriot ever)
6 Grogan (QBs are the face of a franchise and he was ours for over a decade)
7 Troy Brown ( did it all and worked his way up from no where to be a 3 time SB hero and yes his INTs seal it for me)

Now it gets tough IMO no one above should have been left off but there is at least another 10 deserving of being included.
8 Morgan (most dynamic Patriot ever outside Moss who hasnt been here enough to be here)
9 Bruschi (involved in all but one of our SBs)
10 Vinatieri (the kicks are the Patriots most shining moments)


To me when it breaks down these may not have been the 10 best players in patriot history but they seem to stand out a little more than the few off the list who may have had more talent...I think Willie Mac is my biggest snub.

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JoeSixPat

Exactly. I mean, if he had made some clutch kicks along the way - maybe even one or two that meant the difference in a Championship, I might see my way in adding him to the Top Ten list.

But he's just a kicker. They really don't do that much.

brabirschorr

If your Top 10 list includes Bledsoe you’ve automatically lost all credibility so there’s no point in reading the rest of your list. So that opens up one slot.

Looking at the rest of the list versus who’s been left off, I’d have to remove Coates even though I thought he was a great player. With those 2 slots open, the 2 most glaring omissions are Stanley Morgan and Ty Law. A case can be made for Gino, Troy, Seymour, Armstrong, etc. and we can argue all day but I’ll put them in the next 10. No shame there.

Gotta laugh at those who say AV doesn’t deserve to be on the list because he’s a kicker. In case you haven’t been paying attention, kicking is an integral part of football (just ask the Bills and countless other teams who have lost big games as a result). The indisputable fact of the matter is that without Adam we wouldn’t be sitting here with 3 Lombardis and that’s good enough for me. BB calls him a football player and, um, he knows a little more than we do.