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Old 01-21-2009, 06:55 PM   #1
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Default At what positions could we NOT use an upgrade?

As I see it, the positions at which the Pats have no real use for an upgrade are:

  • Starting QB
  • Starting Nose Tackle
  • Placekicker
  • Long Snapper

Positions at which the Pats could use an upgrade include:

  • Backup QB (post-Cassell)
  • Wide Receiver (to replace Gaffney)
  • Tight End
  • Running back
  • Offensive tackle
  • Interior OL
  • Defensive End (because a backup upgrade could become the starter if Seymour leaves)
  • Backup NT
  • OLB
  • ILB
  • S
  • CB
  • Punter
  • Kick/punt returner
  • ST cover

Am I missing anything?
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Old 01-21-2009, 07:26 PM   #2
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Default Re: At what positions could we NOT use an upgrade?

Now we just need to prioritize that long list of possible upgrades.
1. - OLB
2. - ILB
3. - Offensive Tackle
4. - Interior OL
5. - CB
6. - S
7. - Defensive End
8. - Tight End
9. - Wide Receiver
10- Backup NT
11- Running Back
12- Backup QB
13- St Cover
14- Kick/Punt Returner
15- Punter

That's a quick list without a lot of thought in to it, but WR and RB are low because I think we've found the Pats can find adequate players at those positions late in the draft and as undrafted free agents. Same goes with the special teams players, plus there are some decent ST players already on the team. I know the focus has been on the corners this season, but I'd like to see more pressure on the QB. Also like to see Light move to RT and a long term replacement at LT.
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Old 01-21-2009, 07:38 PM   #3
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Default Re: At what positions could we NOT use an upgrade?

I'd put Safety higher on the list myself. Otherwise I largely agree.
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Old 01-21-2009, 07:56 PM   #4
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Default Re: At what positions could we NOT use an upgrade?

I agree as well.
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Old 01-21-2009, 08:18 PM   #5
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Lightbulb Re: At what positions could we NOT use an upgrade?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fencer View Post
As I see it, the positions at which the Pats have no real use for an upgrade are:

  • Starting QB
  • Starting Nose Tackle
  • Placekicker
  • Long Snapper
Positions at which the Pats could use an upgrade include:

  • Backup QB (post-Cassell)
  • Wide Receiver (to replace Gaffney)
  • Tight End
  • Running back
  • Offensive tackle
  • Interior OL
  • Defensive End (because a backup upgrade could become the starter if Seymour leaves)
  • Backup NT
  • OLB
  • ILB
  • S
  • CB
  • Punter
  • Kick/punt returner
  • ST cover
Am I missing anything?
This is a thread that illuminates nothing. You can use an upgrade at whatever position doesn't have a HOF player and a HOF reserve or maybe two. ITS A NON SEQUITOR.

The real question is what position needs a quality starting level player?

Surprise... None. But these positions have marginal starters. S, ILB, and CB (due to youth). Every where else, like the OL could use a developmental, and talented guy who is expected to start in two years. Same for OLB and CB and ????

That is why they won ELEVEN games guys, despite starting an equivalent to a rookie QB! The Team simply has lots of good players and no glaring weaknesses.

Last edited by AzPatsFan; 01-21-2009 at 08:20 PM..
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Old 01-21-2009, 08:25 PM   #6
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Default Re: At what positions could we NOT use an upgrade?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fencer View Post
[*]Defensive End (because a backup upgrade could become the starter if Seymour leaves)
Leaving aside the debate as to how good he is, Seymour's in the last year of his contract, and cutting him wouldn't have high enough cap savings to make sense (the team would only get back $3.3M of his $9.8M salary, and you're not going to find anyone better than him for $3.3M). If anyone's getting cut, it's Green, since they could get back half of his $5M salary in cap savings.

Either way, as long as Warren, Green, Seymour, Smith, Wilfork and Wright are on the roster, I think we're all set on the DL front.
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Old 01-21-2009, 08:45 PM   #7
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Default Re: At what positions could we NOT use an upgrade?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AzPatsFan View Post
This is a thread that illuminates nothing. You can use an upgrade at whatever position doesn't have a HOF player and a HOF reserve or maybe two. ITS A NON SEQUITOR.

The real question is what position needs a quality starting level player?

Surprise... None. But these positions have marginal starters. S, ILB, and CB (due to youth). Every where else, like the OL could use a developmental, and talented guy who is expected to start in two years. Same for OLB and CB and ????

That is why they won ELEVEN games guys, despite starting an equivalent to a rookie QB! The Team simply has lots of good players and no glaring weaknesses.
I agree with the general sentiment, but there are definitely starters who could be realistically replaced (but this team is still a Super Bowl favorite with all of these guys starting, so you upgrade where you can and see what happens). IMO, the team could benefit quite a bit by upgrading at any of these positions:

Offensive line: LT, RT, RG. Mankins and Koppen are great, but any of the other three could be upgraded, IMO. I like light, but he gets manhandled by the elite pass rushers out there. I'd love to see Light at RT and a real stud at LT, especially with Brady coming off of his injury. I also like Neal a lot, but it seems like he's pretty much guaranteed to miss 6-8 games. Once again, though, if it doesn't happen it doesn't happen. We have a good OL as it is.

Tight End: Once again, not a huge priority. I'm still curious to see how good David Thomas really is, and I'm still kinda waiting to see if Ben Watson will become a really good tight end, but I'd love to see the Pats pick up a run blocker at TE. Kinda like how they picked up Kyle Brady in '07, except with totally different results.

WR: Low priority. Gaffney's fine. A little more speed from his position would just make things unfair, but there's a reason why Gaffney beat out Stallworth over the course of '07. Smart player, runs good routes, and, the Indy game notwithstanding, surehanded.

RB: Non-priority. I'd like to see the Pats re-sign Jordan and bring the whole stable of RBs back, and maybe we'll even see something out of Maroney this year. Whatever- either way, the Pats will have a formidable ground game as long as one of Morris or Jordan is healthy at any given time.

Backup QB: I'm not too worried about this one. O'Connell's had a year under Belichick, Brady, and JMD. If he's not ready yet, I'm sure they'll bring in a competent veteran behind Brady. No big deal.

Defensive line: Low priority. I'd like to see Wilfork extended this offseason, and either way (but especially if we can't), it would be nice if we could get our hands on a more complete backup/replacement for him, but there are more 3-4 teams in the NFL than legitimate nose tackles, so that's not going to happen. Extending Wilfork and maybe Seymour as well would be gravy.

ILB: Moderate priority. I like Guyton, but if we can get a more punishing run-stopper (think pre-stroke Bruschi) out there, I'd be all for it. I'd like to see Bruschi relegated to a backup role as soon as possible. I'd actually kinda like to see Vrabel moved inside.

OLB: moderate/high priority. Woods was alright, but I'd like to see more here. I liked Colvin when he came back, and would be pretty intrigued to see Colvin and Thomas starting at OLB next season, with Vrabel either at inside or hybrid, and Woods and Crable for depth.

Strong Safety: Probably our highest priority, IMO. Not sure if Rodney's coming back, and I do like James Sanders, but I'd like to see some youth and athleticism injected here. From what I hear, though, I don't think there are any major prospects that will be available for the Pats in the draft, so that's kind of a bummer. I'd be curious to see what Belichick originally intended with Tank, too. It's a real shame that he got injured so early.

CB: I'm not so convinced that we're in dire straits here, pending the progression of Wheatley and Wilhite. Hobbs isn't the best CB out there, but he's a legitimate NFL starter. I liked what I saw from pretty much everyone but O'Neal last year, though. I'd like to think that if Wheatley had stayed healthy he would have supplanted O'Neal before Wilhite eventually did, but all in all I think that our secondary isn't as bad off as it seems. Lewis Sanders is a solid hybrid, Richardson is pretty good depth, and Wilhite and Wheatley both showed some real potential. If we could get a seriously talented player as an upgrade at CB, then that would be nice, but I wouldn't be surprised if Belichick doesn't consider it a top priority.
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Old 01-21-2009, 10:14 PM   #8
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Default Re: At what positions could we NOT use an upgrade?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AzPatsFan View Post
This is a thread that illuminates nothing. You can use an upgrade at whatever position doesn't have a HOF player and a HOF reserve or maybe two. ITS A NON SEQUITOR.
Right on...and not only because "non sequitur" is an underrated and underused phrase.

Brady is Brady.
Maroney is fine (please don't hijack the thread).
Moss is still a monster
Welker is the best at what he does.
Light still does a solid job.
Mankins is a beast
Koppen is the heart of the line.
Seymour is a handful when healthy.
Wilfork is a star and still improving.
Warren does a workman's job that you don't notice until he isn't there.
AD is a unique talent that still hasn't been fully realized.
Mayo has everything but experience.
Meriweather is on the verge of becoming elite.
Gostkowski is All-Pro.

So of the 25 "starting" positions, 14 don't need to be upgraded in 2009. Three others (DThomas, Wheatley, Crable) have high draft picks that haven't gotten a chance to show what they can do. The remaining 8 (flanker, OG, OT, ILB, CB, S, P, LS) could all use an upgrade but none of the situations are desperate for 2009. With a reasonable cap situation and a handful of high draft picks, I would expect most of these positions to have new players taking significant snaps.

As for the reserves...well there is a reason why they aren't starting.
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Old 01-21-2009, 10:26 PM   #9
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Default Re: At what positions could we NOT use an upgrade?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fencer View Post
As I see it, the positions at which the Pats have no real use for an upgrade are:

  • Starting QB
  • Starting Nose Tackle
  • Placekicker
  • Long Snapper

Positions at which the Pats could use an upgrade include:

  • Backup QB (post-Cassell)
  • Wide Receiver (to replace Gaffney)
  • Tight End
  • Running back
  • Offensive tackle
  • Interior OL
  • Defensive End (because a backup upgrade could become the starter if Seymour leaves)
  • Backup NT
  • OLB
  • ILB
  • S
  • CB
  • Punter
  • Kick/punt returner
  • ST cover

Am I missing anything?
The fact that receivers and quarterbacks get better the more they work together? (if the contract is doable)
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Old 01-21-2009, 10:38 PM   #10
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Default Re: At what positions could we NOT use an upgrade?

Really, none huh?

Well, I think we need quality starting players at the following positions. It usually does take a player not in the top 10 a year to develop. You must presume that all our free agents will re-sign with us if we want them.

2009
Please name our starting safeties. Meriweather can't play both positions.

2010
Please name our OG's, TE's, NT's and DE's. Warren is signed. That's one out of six starters. And we do need backups and situational players.

Please name our CB's (there are three key spots including nickel; perhaps Wilhite and Wheatley can be counted on to be two quality stating elvel players.????)
Is Guyton a starting level player? If not, we need an ILB to compete with him for that spot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AzPatsFan View Post
This is a thread that illuminates nothing. You can use an upgrade at whatever position doesn't have a HOF player and a HOF reserve or maybe two. ITS A NON SEQUITOR.

The real question is what position needs a quality starting level player?

Surprise... None. But these positions have marginal starters. S, ILB, and CB (due to youth). Every where else, like the OL could use a developmental, and talented guy who is expected to start in two years. Same for OLB and CB and ????

That is why they won ELEVEN games guys, despite starting an equivalent to a rookie QB! The Team simply has lots of good players and no glaring weaknesses.
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