How would Cassel do with an average team? - Page 2 - New England Patriots Forums

***The Dog*** · 11-25-2008, 08:30 AM

Cassell is proving that it isn't the qb in new england that is important, but the system. They have a great system and great coaching. Cassell is playing worlds better than Brady ever did during his first year. Brady had the benefit of great defense, special teams, and a pretty good run game. Cassell doesn't have any of that. I'm not saying he is better or will be better than Brady. He is playing better right now than TB did in 01.

PatsFan2 · 11-25-2008, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSn

If this is a successful year, he'll have the mental placeholder to be a great QB. That's why I hope he signs with a real team (aka NOT Oakland or Detroit).

He's good enough that I wouldn't be sad to see him leave the division, that's for sure.

Detriot have Calvin Johnson who will be a next Randy Moss...Johnson is a specimen at WR great size and speed combo.

sieglo · 11-25-2008, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Dog

Cassell is proving that it isn't the qb in new england that is important, but the system. They have a great system and great coaching. Cassell is playing worlds better than Brady ever did during his first year. Brady had the benefit of great defense, special teams, and a pretty good run game. Cassell doesn't have any of that. I'm not saying he is better or will be better than Brady. He is playing better right now than TB did in 01.

You may want to keep in mind that Cassel has the benefit of a very good offensive line, plus two of the best receivers in the league.

Brady had Troy Brown and Antwoine Smith.

AzPatsFan · 11-25-2008, 10:45 AM

I think we have already seen what Matt Cassel would do with an average Team. For the first half of the season, he played behind a very Offensive Line, starting Billy Yates and the scrub pickup of the week on the Right side of the line.

The Team could only run to the left, and there was no pocket, as the right side of the line frequently collapsed. Were you ever impressed with Cassel running then, as he "stepped up" into the arms of a crashing DL? I thought not. With no time to throw, was it surprising that all he had time to do was dink and dunk? Then the inevitable criticism that he couldn't throw long. I remember the first pass he threw after taking over for Brady in the end-zone to Moss at about the opposition 40.

The Defense early, still had the 10 first year players to the Patriots that it does now, and its ratings were in the 20s in the League. The Offense ranked similarly.

With two thirds of the season gone and BB doing his usual superb development coaching job, those ten newcomers are "playing so badly" that the team Defense now is in the top dozen rankings.(actually 12th overall). I would suggest the players must be becoming somewhat introduced and familiar with each other. By now they probably even know each other's name!

This in spite of the poor records to begin the season. Cassel is a budding Star NFL QB, who has already played with an poor Team for half a year and done fairly well. Cassel 2008 is not equal to Brady 2007, no one is, but I think he has done as well as Brady circa 2001, if not better, has more athletic ability, a better body, more "escape-ability", and probably a better arm.

But remember those peripheral things count for little in my evaluation of QBs. What is between the ears and POISE are what makes QBs. Brady has developed and gone off the top of the charts there: but Cassel is already pretty high up there on those intangible but all important features, to go along along with his better athleticism.

***mgteich*** · 11-25-2008, 11:17 AM

An average team is 8-8 (or expects to be so), by definition. If Cassel replaced an average QB on one of those teams from the beginning of training camp, the question is how many more or fewer games would they be expected to win. My guess is that they would be expected to win 1-2 more games or 9-10 games.

Brady may be good for 3-4 games. How many has Favre been worth this year?

Perhaps if we had an average QB, in a year with an average schedule, we'd be an average team. What do all think? Take the #16 or #17 QB in the league and have him play for the QB last year, this year and next. How many regular seasongames would you expect to win.
I think that we expect to win 14 with Brady, 11 with Cassel at his present level.

I suspect that the answer is 9, maybe 10 games in a good year with an average QB. My bottom line is that the QB position is very important to this team; we spend a lot of our cap money at that position.

Just BTW, I am very excited about this season. However, if we were to switch places with Cleveland and play their schedule, I don't think we'd be talking playoffs, except as a severe long shot.

PATRIOTSFANINPA · 11-25-2008, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tatepatsfan

With an average team, he wouldn't be throwing for 400+ yards in 2 consecutive games. I do think he ranks in the top 10 of NFL starters (including Brady). In fact, I think there are really only 5 QB's I'd definitely take over Cassel right now (Brady, Manning, Manning, Romo, and Brees...maybe Favre).

I would add Rivers to that list,Its the other guys on that team that are not playing hard enough to win.

LasVegasPatsFan · 11-25-2008, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AzPatsFan

I think we have already seen what Matt Cassel would do with an average Team. For the first half of the season, he played behind a very Offensive Line, starting Billy Yates and the scrub pickup of the week on the Right side of the line.

Thats hard to argue. It took Manning until the 2nd half of the season to get into the rythm and he had a great OL. Matt never started a game so maybe he got his rythm much like Manning.

spacecrime · 11-25-2008, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcrack

haha these trade brady posts are funny & i seriously hope nobody is actually serious that they would keep cassell over brady..yea ill agree that cassell has improved but do u actually think he would be playing this good with a bunch of average recievers?..thats the diff. between an eilte QB & a pretty good QB..i honestly dont think cassell would go far without star players like moss,welker, faulk etc..i like cassell though but brady is in a league of his own

So you are saying that Peyton is below average because he had top receivers all his career? or that any QB could have gone undefeated last season if only they had Moss and Welker on their team.

Cassel played for half a game a few years ago against Miami. Last game of the season, we had secured a bye and was resting players. Playing agaisnt Miami's first string defense, and throwing to Kelvin Kight and Bam Childress, Cassel brought us back from a 2 TD deficit. Rather than chance OT, BB went for a 2-point conversion and Bam missed the pass.

spacecrime · 11-25-2008, 01:54 PM

I see that many people make their minds up about a player before he plays any games and cannot admit they guessed wrong about the player's ceiling.

How many of you folks who think Cassel is average would like to see him in Jet green for the next 7-8 years? I hope we never find out.

I think Cassel will be a star in the NFL, having almost as good a career as Matt Gutierrez.

PatsFan2 · 11-25-2008, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spacecrime

I see that many people make their minds up about a player before he plays any games and cannot admit they guessed wrong about the player's ceiling.

How many of you folks who think Cassel is average would like to see him in Jet green for the next 7-8 years? I hope we never find out.

I think Cassel will be a star in the NFL, having almost as good a career as Matt Gutierrez.

What? Matt Gutierrez has a career?