Originally Posted by Bostonian1962

The way teams are going up and down the field on the Pats, has been a bit hard to view. It makes me nervous about the team's chances as time goes on. It wasn't exactly Moss, Jerry Rice, and Tony Gonzalez carving up the Pats secondary the last couple of weeks.

Can it be fixed, and how? Does anybody have to be replaced? Could somebody currently out come back and be the answer? Will younger talent like Guyton, Merriweather, and Mayo improve the D, as they get some time under their belt?

I'm asking because, I don't know how things can improve in the short term. I could see a big boost come playoff time, if Thomas comes back, but short of that, I'm looking for some hope here.

Is their a reason for hope of improvment, or is the team going to have to put up mega-points every game?

Originally Posted by captain stone

I agree with every word in this post.

As I stated in the "Secondary" thread, even if we suffered zero injuries to our DBackfield, our talent level there would be adequate, but not outstanding.

Hobbs, Wheatley, Webster, O'Neal & Bryant/LSanders would have been the best-case scenario at CB; at Safety, it would have been Harrison, Meriweather, JSanders, TWilliams & LSanders/Ventrone. Not exactly 2003, but probably good enough.

But now Wheatley, Bryant, Harrison & TWilliams have been replaced with Wilhite, Richardson, Spann, and S/WRs Slater & Ventrone. Nobody has replaced SSs Rodney & Tank - Lil' Jimmy Sanders doesn't count; and not one of the new CBs has come close to replacing A$ante, or Gay, or even Hank the Man Poteat.

Originally Posted by PATS68

At OLB, Vrabel is finished as a pass-rusher to be feared, or maybe even respected. Woods lacks explosiveness, a closing burst, and instincts. If you believe in God, then pray to Him that Vince Redd can contribute at his position as much as Guyton & Mayo have contributed at theirs. And where would our ILBs be without those 2? Up Shyte Creek, that's where. Save a prayer for a speedy recovery by AT, while you're at it.

Originally Posted by PATS68

The question was: can our Defense be turned around? My answer: No. In fact, it's getting worse, not better. And except for AT - maybe, there is no help on the horizon, only storm clouds.

Originally Posted by PATS68

I think it is a lack of talent with DB's and coaching and front office.

I'll start with the front office. Team has failed to replace key players like Ted Johnson, Willie Mac, Ty Law, Milloy. All those guys were 1st day picks in the draft. They tried to replace them with all second day picks and bad FA singings. Pats had three undrafted LB's on the field the other day. Guyton, Woods and Redd. There might be some upside, but you see the impact of a day 1 pick in Mayo.

I also believe that Pats wasted way too many draft picks when they tried to run a 2 TE O. Two #1s and a 3rd with some where in the area of 8 draft picks spent on the TE postion. Way too much!

How about K. Dansby instead of Watson. Dansby went one pick after.

Running a 3-4, Pats should have used 8 draft picks on LBS and DBS. I looked to the Steelers and the turn over they have had with their system. Look at the OLB postion, it started with Llyod, Chad Brown, Gildon, Porter and now Harrison. I am leaving out all the turn over at ILB and the other OLB postion.

I go with some bad coaching during the game. On the Ricky Williams TD, the team was confused. Players were running on and off the field. They were no even set. Why not call a timeout and get the right people on the field.

3rd and long and they play coverage for a team that can not play coverage. Why not go after him, force him to get rid of it. IE 3rd and long Jets game.

I just don't think they have the talent at the DB postion. Hobbs does not attack the ball, he plays the WR. Samuel and Law both could attack the ball, I don't see this as part of Hobbs game. Hobbs plays anyone with speed and height, its all over for him. He got his but handed to him in the Rams game.

I will say that Merriweather has been making some nice hits out there the last few weeks. I know that 3-15 hurt bad. Decked Wayne a couple of times in the Colts game. Had some nice hits in the game the other day. I think once he gets it, he will be really good.

BB please use this draft for the D. Also try to find a WR late in the draft IE David Givens and please try to find a RB that is not made out of glass.

Originally Posted by KillEM

+1 couldnt agree more.
This guy knows what he is talking about.

This upcoming draft needs mostly Defense with a skill player here and there in the later rounds.

Originally Posted by KillEM

Ah shutup Bruinz, you argue like a old prudish woman.

Pats68 is DEAD ON accurate when he says we never replaced our keys players. Instead we signed bums like Eric Alexander and Pierre Woods. I'm surprised they have even lasted on our roster so long. The Linebacker overhaul is a couple years late and we've been paying for it badly.

Two TE's in the 1st rd... wasnt worth it. Where is that GEM Ryan Claridge these days? He was the highest LB Belicheck drafted up until Mayo this year.

Originally Posted by DaBruinz

There is so much wrong with your line of thought I don't know where to start.

Ok start with an insult like always. Good!

First of all, the draft is a crap shoot. Secondly, Willie McGinest HAS been replaced. First it was by Rosie Colvin and then by Adalius Thomas. Milloy was replaced by Rodney Harrison. Meriweather has since been drafted.

Ok, Willie in my eyes has not been replaced. Willie was more or less replaced by Banta Cain. Colvin and he played together. Then came Thomas. No one has replaced his big time key plays. Colvin did not live up to the billing. I think they moved Thomas around too much last year.

Harrison did not replace Milloy. Wilson replaced Milloy. Milloy would not redue his deal, then he was cut a week before the season. Milloy and Harrison lined up next to each other all through training camp. So Milloy was replaced by Wilson.

The Patriots also drafted Terence Wheatley, whom they believe will be a starting CB. The Pats, as is their want, were bringing Wheatley along slowly.

Like you just said, draft can be a crap shoot. The guy could be a bust for all we know. Can't put faith in a guy we know nothing about. Seems like other rookie DB got more playing time.

Another thing, McGinest, Johnson, Milloy, and Law were all drafted prior to Belichick getting to New England.

My point all high draft picks at different levels of the D. Great players that were the core through the playoffs and the 1st SB win. Game changers.

Having 3 UDFAs on the field means nothing. I have news for you, some of the best players in the league are UDFA. Adam Vinatieri, Kurt Warner, etc, etc.

I have no problem with UDFA. It is just sad when you have UDFA and low round draft picks beating out 2nd rounds picks on the regular.

B. Johnson 2nd beat out Givens 7th round.
M. Hill 2nd beat out by M. Wright UDFA
Chad Jackson 2nd beat out by Jab Street FA.
A Klemm. Beatout by Joe A.



You do realize that those 3 draft picks you are talking about occured over a 5 year time span, yes? Belichick has spent 9 picks over a 9 year period on TEs. Not sure how you can consider that a LOT.

Your kidding right? It worked out so well that they went to the spread. Signed some great WR's. Would you be upset if the Pats did not resign Watson? I wouldn't.
I rather see the wealth spread around. 3-4 is your core D, pats always have injuries. Why not use one of those picks on the next great LB or DB.

How do you know that Dansby would have accelled in the Patriots system and under Belichick?

He could have been great for all you know. We will never know.



First of all, the Steelers 3-4 system is different than the Patriots. The system the Steelers play is a one gap system. The one the Pats play is a 2 Gap system.

I am talking aout LBs not D-linemen. You have to admit that they have had some great LBs in that System that produced Vrable. They signed Scott the DB and they Townsend in for a vist and I think they offered him a contract, but he went back to Pitt.

So I think the FO keeps and eye out on potential FA from that system.

As for what the Patriots should have done with the draft, you don't seem to understand that the Patriots use their own scouting to set their draft boards. At BEST, all the internet sites should be used as a loose guideline as to whether or not the Pats will like the player. The Patriots also draft personel based on their criteria of VALUE. Not based strictly on need and not based on best player available.

Everyone and their sister knew they were going to draft Mayo. Michael Hollie called the day before the draft. All the guys at weei knew who they were going to draft.

I know they look towards value. I think value is just coach speak. All coaches have their systems. A highly rated 225 LB that still on the board and the value is great, I don't see the pats drafting that player.

Speaking of value. was Dan Klecko better value than Koppen and Samuels? Was drafted higher.



Guyton was on his man. It was a very good throw on a fade route. Can't you stop and give Pennington creditr for that? I am not puting it on

I don't put this on Guyton, like you said it was a great throw.

That being said, anyone on the Pats defense could have called the time out. Or any of the coaches. I think its overboard to call it "bad coaching" when it really was just a simple mistake.

The point in the game where players and coaches are confused, there should have been a time out. Pats were in a shoot out and needed to try to hold them to a FG. Call time out, get your best players on the field and get the best play called.

I think some of the confusion was Pees ws up in the coaches box for the 1st time


This is actually where I would have thought you'd say there was bad coaching because the Patriots stayed with their base 3-4 and didn't move in any sub packages. But, then the Nickel package got burned repeatedly against the Jets.

100% agree with you on this. WOW something we agree on. They put Vrable in a tough spot trying to cover #15 of the phins.




I think that your analysis is lacking. Hobbs plays the WR more than the ball because, in my opinion, the Pats don't currently have the cohesion amongst the secondary for them to gamble on attacking the ball. The flip side that you seem to forget is that Samuel was a mediocre tackler and he got burned plenty.

Hobbs just does not have the ball skills they other 2 had. The other 2 got paid alot of money so there is ton of talent there. Any WR that has height and speed will have a field day with Hobbs. The second half of last year Hobbs got beat like a drum. After the Red Skins game, he gave up a long TD in every game.



I remember Kevin Faulk being termed as "made of glass." He's turned into one of the best 3rd down backs and all-around weapons in the league.

Originally Posted by BionicPatriot

You repeated what I said about Colvin.

McGinest provided a better rush.

Originally Posted by KillEM

Ah shutup Bruinz, you argue like a old prudish woman.

Pats68 is DEAD ON accurate when he says we never replaced our keys players. Instead we signed bums like Eric Alexander and Pierre Woods. I'm surprised they have even lasted on our roster so long. The Linebacker overhaul is a couple years late and we've been paying for it badly.

Two TE's in the 1st rd... wasnt worth it. Where is that GEM Ryan Claridge these days? He was the highest LB Belicheck drafted up until Mayo this year.