Today's post by NEInsider on ESPN board - Page 2 - New England Patriots Forums

alvinnf · 09-02-2008, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndyJohnson

Think about that analysis. There is NO WAY that our defense is set up so the corner thinks he is getting help deep but the safety stands in the middle of the field and decides which side he is going to run too after its too late.

Yeah, it's called cover one.

unoriginal · 09-02-2008, 06:30 PM

I'll side with the crew that don't like these posts much. Never seen enough of the Pats coverage to know the full ins and outs of what they run, but the explanation given for observations is either (1) careless or (2) clueless, and the whole thing rings false to me as a defensive back.

Quote:

... the FS must play the percentages and move to help the corner in trouble. This is why the FS is generally positioned in the center of the field and deep.

Stuff like this. The second sentence is not a definite characteristic of the system the insider is describing. Either he's in a hurry or isn't a football guy. It would be like a car engineer saying "Here at GM we believe in giving America the safest car possible. That's why we put the steering wheel on the left side of the car."

I've never heard of a FS asked to do anything above (1) play their zone or (2) be the deepest man on the field and break only when the ball's thrown. If BB asks our safeties to be Master of All Zones I have a profound respect for their abilities, its can't be easy reading both the offense and defense scheme sideline to sideline and covering the same, with the speed of the NFL game and the abiilty of NFL passers.

I'd normally regard this to be unfeasible as described at a high school level. Safeties read and cover half a field, if that.

***363839*** · 09-02-2008, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndyJohnson

Think about that analysis. There is NO WAY that our defense is set up so the corner thinks he is getting help deep but the safety stands in the middle of the field and decides which side he is going to run too after its too late.

I thought that the Pats played zone so the corner releases to the safety to watch for the inside routes. I'm just a novice but am I right ?

***AndyJohnson*** · 09-02-2008, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob0729

One thing I can agree with NEInsider if he is real or fake is that Hobbs does get blamed too often for blown coverages that were not his fault. Fans tend to blame the defender who gets to the receiver first in these blown coverages and Hobbs tends to be first since he plays the deepest. I know there has been several times last year he got blasted for giving up plays when if you look at the replay it was clearly a safety or nickelback.

Oh, I agree with that.

There are 2 things that this fan base consistently overreacts to, IMO (and I would say EVERY fan base does also)
1) Any completed pass means the corner stinks. The only way for a corner to be any good is if no one ever catches a pass on him, and
2) Every play that doesnt work means the OC stinks. TheOC is expected to call plays that work no matter what the defense does, and our guys not executing or the defense executing well has nothing to do with it.

We will NEVER have a corner that doesn't get described, like Hobbs did earlier as 'getting burned several times a game' and never have an OC that doesn't get called an idiot more weeks than not.

***AndyJohnson*** · 09-02-2008, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alvinnf

Yeah, it's called cover one.

Not even close.

unoriginal · 09-02-2008, 06:35 PM

Adding a post to ask a question: Has anybody ever seen a Pats deep safety leave the middle of the field before the ball was thrown?

Naturally I'm not talking about Cover 2 here.

***AndyJohnson*** · 09-02-2008, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unoriginal

I'll side with the crew that don't like these posts much. Never seen enough of the Pats coverage to know the full ins and outs of what they run, but the explanation given for observations is either (1) careless or (2) clueless, and the whole thing rings false to me as a defensive back.

Stuff like this. The second sentence is not a definite characteristic of the system the insider is describing. Either he's in a hurry or isn't a football guy. It would be like a car engineer saying "Here at GM we believe in giving America the safest car possible. That's why we put the steering wheel on the left side of the car."

I've never heard of a FS asked to do anything above (1) play their zone or (2) be the deepest man on the field and break only when the ball's thrown. If BB asks our safeties to be Master of All Zones I have a profound respect for their abilities, its can't be easy reading both the offense and defense scheme sideline to sideline and covering the same, with the speed of the NFL game and the abiilty of NFL passers.

I'd normally regard this to be unfeasible as described at a high school level. Safeties read and cover half a field, if that.

Thats the thing, we play so many different coverages (every team does) that to describe it like this is just way off.
If we are playing zone, EVERY player has a zone to cover, they do not pick and choose.
The 'over the top help' comes in when a safety has the deep part of the field and the corner has intermediate. When there is only one reciever in that corners area, he can continue deep with the receiver into the safeties zone. If you have a combo of a go, and an out, the corner leaves the go and takes the out.
If it is man coverage, you can have a 'free safety'. (You cant in zone because he is ASSIGNED A ZONE) One safety would cover the TE, and if there are only 3 recievers one of the DBs is 'free' with no one to cover. In that case they could roam, or more likely are assigned a receiver or a part of the field to focus on. The idea that they stay in the middle of the field, and watch how coverage is going then guess where to run is inane.

alvinnf · 09-02-2008, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndyJohnson

Not even close.

That's pretty much what you described, it certainly isn't a black zero....

***AndyJohnson*** · 09-02-2008, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alvinnf

That's pretty much what you described, it certainly isn't a black zero....

Cover one is not close to what I described, what I described doesnt exist.
What is your definition of a cover 1 scheme?

TripleOption · 09-02-2008, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndyJohnson

It is ludicrous to even beign to suggest that our defense requires a safety to stand in the middle of the field,and watch how both corners are aligned and covering their man before chossing which side to give help on.
That is simply impossible, because by the time he could make that decision, even assuming he COULD make that decision, the play would have developed so far that he would have no chance of getting to either side of the field.
Plus, it goes against every concept of defensive football in the world, to suggest that a corner may or may not have deep help, so he has to cover as if he does, but also as if he doesnt in case the safety decides he doesnt need it? How do you decide whether a corner who is expecting deep help needs it or not from the first 5-10 yards of coverage? By definition, the tighter his coverage the more he is expecting it.

Wow, that coverage sounds like a great idea. if I were to run it, I would call it...Cover One!! I could also call it "Man Free"...What a football genius I am, to come up with such a scheme...

Funny how some people will say something is impossible, and it is run from Youth up through the NFL.