DaBruinz

Dennard isn't waiting for a prison sentence. Sheesh.. The trial isn't even done and things aren't looking good for the prosecution since the video that supposedly showed Dennard hitting the Officer was not as convincing as they thought it was. Not to mention that Ben Samani, the person who was supposedly hit by Dennard said that he wasn't sure if it was Dennard that hit him or not.

DocHoliday

DMc's ability at safety will be much more useful for this team.

For one, since he can cover fairly decently, he allows the use of safety/CB swap schemes. That's nothing to sneeze at.

Moreover, as a former corner, he can play in both 2-CB 3-safety and 3-CB 2-safety nickel packages, minimizing substitutions.

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AndyJohnson

It comes down to Wilson.
Lets do it this way. Either McCourty is at S and we signed a corner, or McCourty is at corner and we signed a starting safety, better than any we have.
If BB sees Wilson as worthy of where he was drafted, he will be expected to start and be effective this year (that is a very, very common path with BB draft picks, reserve and sub as a rookie, started year 2) then we don't draft a S. (With the exception of McCourty goes to corner and we draft instead of sign one but i dont see that happening)
If Wilson is assessed to not be ready, we have to draft one who can play this year. In other words, we aren't counting on Gregory, so if Wilson isn't a lock to beat him out, we must draft someone who will before long.

supafly

We'll likely know the outcome of Dennard's status tomorrow, so that will be in plenty of time before March 12th comes around. Many here find it hard to imagine him still being incarcerated when the summer is over, as that is still 6 months+ at the moment. As long as any sentence he receives doesn't exceed one year, we should be fine with him returning for the season. Hopefully it isn't anything more than 6 months or so anyway, so he can still attend the offseason activities and be out in 3 months.

I agree with your pessimism re Dowling, but he did play in 6 games this year. I just read an article after the Oct.22nd game vs the NYJ and he was still playing at that point when McCourty initially moved back to safety. Obviously he didn't see nearly as many snaps as "6 games" would expect, so your point remains the same, he has been oft-injured and hasn't contributed to this point. We don't want to have to rely on Dowling, we want him to be a bonus if he works out. However, we also need to keep in mind that he is still on the team and will compete for reps as a CB, even if the odds seem slim at this point.

The team will have to address the gaps via the usual moves, but there is no reason to believe that all of Dennard, Dowling, Arrington, Talib, and Cole will all be missing in action. We should see at least 3-4 of them to compete for reps with a draftee and a free agent pickup or two.

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Patiently waiting to defend the next "bubble" player in this summer's training camp.....

supafly

I agree that Wilson's development and Belichick's thoughts on the matter will likely be a key factor.

An optimistic person could actually view the potential of McCourty to play either role as a huge positive in this situation, as it gives Belichick more flexibility to approach the situation from 2 different paths, and may provide more options. In this instance the team doesn't have to lock down on one approach or the other, even if Belichick is heavily leaning towards one of the solutions at the moment.

Either way, it's hard for me to look at the situation and see it much different from other years at other positions, or see it in such a negative light. It will be addressed, hopefully the results will improve.

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Patiently waiting to defend the next "bubble" player in this summer's training camp.....

patfanken

Some comments on the comments:

1. This is an excellent topic because of our current situation in the secondary. There are a lot of ways BB can handle this and McCourty's position flexibility gives him a lot of options.

2. McCourty DID do an excellent job at S last season, but he also did a very good job at CB, despite DI's negative rant.

3. What makes me think moving McCourty back to CB is a real possibility comes from my perception that BOTH the FA and draft classes at the safety position are VERY strong. The CB position is less strong in both areas

4. Another reason is that signing Talib or any of the other top CB FA's will cost more than a similarly talented safety. IIRC, a top CB will cost in the $10MM/yr range, while a top safety will cost in the $6MM range.

5. So moving McCourty back to CB, and then signing one of the the top FA safeties, and then drafting an additional S from that very deep class in the first 3 rounds would be more economical than signing Talib or another top CB FA.

6. Now you could field a CB group with McCourty, Dennard, Dowling and Arrington as your top 4 guys, and have a Safety group led by say Byrd, Wilson, Gregory, and a talented Draft pick who you could slowly work into the mix

7. If you keep McCourty at Safety we would be solid at the S position with McCourty ,Wilson, and Gregory, but unless we are willing to pay top dollar to Talib or another top FA CB, we would be incredibly thin at CB, with essentially only the injury plagued Dowling and the legally challenged Dennard as potential starters.

8. I think Arrington did a decent job when he was limited to the slot CB position. While I'd like to see him back next year in that role, there are a lot of guys who are as talented as he is at the position. Its not like he would be that difficult to replace. I think he'd be worth a contract in the $1MM-$1.5MM/yr range. He's not a great talent, but he's been dependable and knows the defense.

9. The Current Wisdom has McCourtry staying that the S position, but I wonder. The combination of a strong FA safety class and a strong draft class of safeties, plus the fact that an elite FA safety costs about $4MM/yr LESS than an elite CB; just MIGHT make MG 's OP a larger possibility than most think.

10. BTW- we can speculate all we want, but it will be another 3-4 weeks before the FA signing period begins and we can get a better idea of what the Pats have in mind. By that time the Pats will have finished any tinkering they are going to do with any existing contracts to create more cap room, and probably signed one or two or their own FA's. But right now its impossible to do more than just guess, because the possibilities are virtually endless.

supafly

You don't care to see Arrington returning in that role, DaBruinz?

I'm actually hoping that Arrington can be retained for a reasonable rate and that the depth on the outside can be improved upon to eliminate any situations where he may be forced over there.

In my opinion it is one less need for a reasonable cost with a player who is experienced in our system, but no one wants to see him having to play outside either.

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Patiently waiting to defend the next "bubble" player in this summer's training camp.....

supafly

That's really what it comes down to, pure speculation, just like the majority of our comments and thoughts in certain areas.

One way or another, I think that there will be plenty of options, so it shouldn't be this much of a negative in the middle of February only 2 weeks removed from the SB.

If the outlook is this dreary in August, that's a whole other story.

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Patiently waiting to defend the next "bubble" player in this summer's training camp.....

ay-yo

A couple of points about moving McCourty back to CB:



1. As MoLewisRocks said one safety has to QB the secondary. This quote further emphasizes this point.

More than anything else this is why I want to keep McCourty at FS.

2. Don't underestimate Doc Holiday's point about having a safety that can play CB at a moderate to high level (depending on your take of McCourty at CB. If you bring in another FS who you are comfortable with (aka Ed Reed) the ability to send 5 rushers AND have McCourty, Talib (or other CB1) and Dennard on the offenses top 3 receiving threats is a huge advantage. Rarely do teams have 4 quality receiving threats. We did last year and they were rarely all on the field together, healthy.

3. We have McCourty on a rookie contract for 2 more years. It does buy us some time (maybe enough where we can restructure Mankins to a smaller yearly cap hit) before we pay a CB top dollar but it's not a long term solution. Eventually we will have to pay or every year we live with rookie contract players or reclamation project vets / jags.

mgteich

SAFETY (need one)
We seem to agree that we are fine at this position with McCourty, Gregory, and Wilson.
I would add a draftee.

CORNERS (need three)
Dennard, Dowling
Say it is many times as you wish. I disagree that with your assessment of only needing 2 more corners or a CB and a CB/S to make this unit work. I'm not ready to count on Dowling, or to have little insurance if all the additions don't work out. We need to replace the production of Talib, Arrington and Cole. For me, It's really that simple.

SPECIAL TEAMS
Ebner or Williams

And yes, I understand that we add players after the initial roster is set.