DaBronxPats14

Agreed along with lockin up Talib and adding Reed short term and another quality FA DB makes it 100% better.

DarrylStingley

I respectfully disagree with Willie because I think the offense lost that game and is what hurt them the most in the SB losses.

Against Baltimore, Talib went down and the Pats D still only allowed 7 points in the first half. It was still at 7 in the mid-3rd Q. The dam finally broke, but it was AFTER the offense continually stalled while in Ravens territory.

It bears em[phasis that the Pats crossed the Ravens 50 6 out of the first 7 drives and 8 out of 12 in that game. They should have had at least 20 points at half time and should have ended up with more than 30.

If the offense does their job, the Pats win that game.

With that D.

tonyto3690

Oh you mean like when McGinest was traded for making waves?
Oh perhaps you mean Branch...
Was it Asante..?
Moss..?


Don't be an idiot. The difference has nothing to do with coaching. It's talent and the mentality of the players. As good as McCourty is in coverage, no one fears him like opponents feared Harrison.

The dynasty years we had a plethora of leaders, mentally tough guys who played smart, fundamental football, didn't have break downs in coverage and could pass rush from anywhere in the front 7. We had Seymour, Bruschi, Harrison, Law, Vrable, and so on and so on. Right now all we have now in that mold is Mayo and Wilfork. Chandler, Spikes, Hightower, McCourty all look like they are on the right path but they're still 5 years away from being veterans.

Our youth is an issue beacuse of inexperience, mental toughness and physical toughness. Not because they don't stand up to Bill and tell our HOF coach which plays to call.

Observer

I have to go with blame the offense on this one. 13 points and multiple turnovers are too much to overcome when playing a playoff game against a solid team. In this very forum, we have said on multiple occasions that when the offense or Brady has an off-day, others need to pick up the slack. Well, against the Ravens, Talib and the defense had an off-day but where was the offense to pick up the slack, especially as we keep believing that offense is our strong point.

Fencer

I don't think it's toughness as a character trait so much as being worried enough about succeeding at their roles, with the worry being due to some combination of experience & talent.

Also, I think there's a notion of "saving" a big play for when you need it. If you're a guy who sets up the opponent with your moves -- e.g. a WR or pass rusher -- you can try to cash in in a critical situation. But I suspect that's more under the individual player's control in defensive situations than in offensive ones, because on offense play calls dictate what happens more precisely than defensive calls do.

I also suspected Willie of just saving his burst for big situations. Athletes in various sports play a little harder at key times -- perhaps excusably if they lack the stamina to play that well 100% of the time -- and Willie seemed like one of them in the latter part of his career, perhaps in connection w/ better managing his injury problems.

__________________
"To lose one parent may be regarded as a misfortune; to lose both looks like carelessness." -- Oscar Wilde

ivanvamp

I do think that, in the end, losing Talib cost the Patriots dearly. But that wasn't so evident until the 3rd quarter. Here are the Ravens' drives after Talib went down:

4 plays, 14 yds, punt
13 plays, 90 yds, TD
3 plays, 0 yds, punt
6 plays, 25 yds, punt

Then the floodgates opened. But for 3 of the 4 drives following Talib's injury, the Ravens went nowhere. Yes, they had the one long TD drive of course. But for the most part, the Pats stoned the Ravens until all hell broke loose.

So yeah, ultimately it caught up with them big-time, but not right away. With 7 minutes to go in the 3rd, the score was 13-7, Pats.

ausbacker

I'll never argue against more talent on D, more depth on D and the need to play like intimidators who crush their enemies on D.

I've said it for far too long now. The Patriots D play far too much like nice guys. Take the odd penalty to crush a player and put some fear out there again. Reputation is everything.

Most teams are mentally beaten before the game against the Patriots. Teams like the Ravens and Giants are not.

DocHoliday

Nothing annoyed me more than the Giants mouthing off before the SB - telling the media that they'd cut the head off the beast - and them proceeding to stop the vaunted O once again.

__________________

condon84

I also think the philosophy of our read and react defense has a lot to do with this. Instead of pushing the action and letting our defensive guys be aggressive, they're just sitting back and letting the offense dictate the action.

AndyJohnson

Thats not really true though.
First of all, read and react regards run defense. Being responsbile for the gap on either side of your blocker rather than one side or the other is not sitting back and letting the offense dictate the action. It is simply sacrificing the rare play where you beat the block and make a 3 yard loss in order to not have a gaping hole when you get blocked out of your gap.
In pass defense most teams play a lot of zone. Zone doesn't mean run backwards and let them catch the pass. It means rather than 1 man whereever he goes, you are responsible for covering whatever man comes to a specified area of the field.
A defender playing zone is expected to cover the guy who comes into his zone just as closely as the man he would be convering in man.

The only way the defense dictates is to sell out on an all out blitz that makes the QB throw to early if you get there but exposes you to a big play if you dont and'or you get beat in man coverage.