poster12

Hey Guys,

I have read this forum for years but never wanted to join to post until I started reading this thread for some reason. I am happy to be a part of this great Patriots community.

Here is my take.

The “logisitics” and “execution of “spygate”

I am here stricly to point out the logistics of what would need to happen in order for the Patriots to have gained an advtage from “spy gate”. Not wether it was cheating, why did what they did, why they got fined, and if it was cheating and so on. So I want to stick to the logistics of the “crime”

1) NFL quaterbacks get the teams plays called into there helmet but some teams do also send in signals from the sidlines as well. When teams send in hand signals on the sidlines there are a couple things to point out.

One, there are usually at least TWO coahces and or normally TWO backup quaterbacks sending in signals. One person is known as the “HOT” siginal caller and one is known as the “DECOY”. One signal is the acutaly play, one signal means nothing. So the first things the Patritos would have had to have done after looking at the tapes of the signals is guess which of the two people sending in the signals is the real one that matches up with the play that was run.

Another way plays are called into the players is indirectorly thorugh prompting the players to refrence the plays on the players “play bands” on player’s wrists or forarms. Coaches will send in signals that will indicate to the players which play number to refrence on the play band and the team will run that play.
Before I make my second point keep in mind if a team changes there siginals or plays on there play bands the second time they would have played the Patriots the prior signals imeditly become useless and NO advtage could be gained.

Also this system of “knowing a teams siginals” ONLY works if you play a team twice during the regular season which for most team if you include the playoffs it would only be about 4-5 of yours games if you include a playoff run to the super bowl. So you can’t use this to your benfit in the other 14 games.

If anything it makes for a potential greater advatage to the other team if they changed there signals since the Patriots would have been looking for and defending a different play that was coming. If you listen to enough NFL press confrence and hear from players and coches speak it is faily common practice to change siginals each week or thorughout the season. But lets give the other side of benfit of the doubt that the teams don’t change there singals at all to cointue the discussion.

2) After the Patriot would have guessed which of the two siginals matched the play that was ran the first time they played a team they would have to had recordered this information in a way that was easy to refrence during a game.

What I mean by that is if a team is sending in a singal for a run off tackle which was the following series of signals (touch head first, touch right knee second, touch left arm third, cross your arms fourth, and stomp your left foot fifth) there is no way that somone could sucessfully have a sheet similar to a “play sheet” we see coaches on the sidelines with all 120 different combinations to scan over to find a match within seconds to the siginal they saw in real time to then give that information to a coach to then use to call a play aginst the play you think is coming.

It would be almost impossiable for a human to do this. The other way to have done it is to program the signials into some type of computer where you could type in the series of signals and it would give you the play that you programmed in early that week to mean something. Again even to type those singals into a computer and read the play back to coaches within seconds all game long would present quite the challenge.

3) Now at this point if the Patriots sucesfully gussed which of the two signals matched the play the first time they played a team, and if the team did not change there siginals from the first game, and if they were able to decode the signals within about 5-6 seconds by looking at a chart or computer you still would have to overcome what the “audiables” are for each play.

Its one thing to know the play that was call but if a team “audiables” at the line and you only know the old play and not the audiable your back at square one truly not knowing the play. You would also need some element of “quality control” when decoding these signals you think you know. Example of this would be after you think you might have decoded a teams signals and lets says its 3rd and 11 on the 40 and the play you think is coming is a run up the middle, there has to some burdon on the person decoding them to make sure that these plays actually matches the situation.

Finally, if you think about the logisitcs of acutally execuitng “spy gate” you have to have the following stars align for it to acutally work.

1) Play a team twice in one season
2) Have the team NOT change its signals or play calls from game one
3) Sucesfully guess which signal was the “hot” signal and the “dummy” signal
4) Have a way to decode the siginal within 5-6 second on a play sheet or with use of a computer.
4) Determine that the play you think is coming actually matches the sitution / “quality control”. (3rd and 11 on the 40 and the play you think is coming is a run up the middle, there has to some burdon on the person decoding them to make sure that these plays actually match the situation.)
5) Communicate this decoded informaiton to the offensive and defensive coaches so they can make there calls within the play clock which would now be atealst 5-6 second behind while wiating for this informaiton.
6) The team the Patriots are play could not audiable and or change the play at the line.

So in theory YES if all six or so of those things lined up “spy gate” could have “worked” to gain an advtage in a very few situations, but it looks like there are way to many variables here for this to have “worked” the way some NFL fans think it did if the Patriots were able to use this information at all. There just seems to be alot more risk on trying to use this information.

BSR

In the end, it makes far more sense that the tapes were used in the way Belichick said, which was to break down film. But you will never get agenda driven opposing fans to understand that.

Jackson 2

Leave it to Greg Bedard in this morning's Globe to hit the nail on the head: "Marshall Faulk really needs to get over the Super Bowl loss to the Patriots. His crying, which he did again last week to Tom Curren,is just so tired and disrespectful. Faulk's team lost to a tougher, more physical squad that just executed tremendously. Faulk should blame Mike Martz for his game plan and failure to adjust." Amen, brother Bedard.

PatsSox363804

That's obvious but Faulk is going to take the easy way out and blame the boogeyman of spygate because it takes the blame off of his coach and his team. That's what we've become in this country, a generation of excuse makers. When you take his comments and actually watch the game film it becomes even more ridiculous. I mean they scored in their only red zone possession and Martz threw it 47 times into the Pats nickel coverage instead of running the ball. Just retarded play calling. Faulk should know better, but he doesn't and hey we should all know by know that just because they call these guys "experts" doesnt really mean they're smart. At the end of the day in that game and in most games there's one stat that matters more than any other and we all know what it is. In that game the Rams were -3, that's the they lost, the end, not because of a camera, not because of cheating, because they called bull**** plays and turned it over 3 times.

eom

yeah, not the greatest timing on this post...

PatsSox363804

Ah just read the whole article now I get it. Yeah our playcalling sucked against Baltimore too, no doubt.

jmt57

FWIW this morning on the NFLN, Kurt Warner was asked about Marshall Faulk's comments. Keeping in mind that Warner has been nearly identical to Faulk in his opinions as recently as within the past year, I was surprised that he took almost a 180 today. He didn't go so far as to say, 'hey they beat us', but Warner basically said 'I'm over it' and 'it's impossible to say if there was or was not an advantage, who knows'.

While he didn't exactly have the Pats back, he definitely did not have Faulk's back on the topic.

Jackson 2

Interesting that it's always the Rams and rarely, if ever, the Eagles or Panthers who whine. Leads one to conclude that they are "hanging their hats" on the walk-through taping story which was proven to be false.