Am I the only one who does NOT want Welker back? - Page 10 - New England Patriots Forums

***Deus Irae*** · 01-23-2013, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hovis

DeSean Jackson of all people got 5 years at $51 million LAST year. Wes consistently racks up over twice as many receptions, more yards, and more TDs. Someone will offer substantially more than that for his services.

Your point about the numbers is a valid one, but Welker's age works against high dollars, and his position (slot WR) works against high dollars as well. Belichick was asked about the slot WR position, and his comment was that he essentially considers it a distinct position in today's game. Part of that means that he doesn't necessarily equate the dollar values as being identical for outside and slot WRs.

DocHoliday · 01-23-2013, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hovis

Not as high as you. If you actually read my post, you'd know that I was talking about a team other than the Patriots offering that kind of money.

Reading comprehension: it's important.

You are equally high if you think another team will pay him that much.

Franchise tag is roughly ~ 11/12. Why would anyone pay multiple years above that?

Uncle Meat · 01-23-2013, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sciz

If there weren't a salary cap, then sure. He has definitely outplayed his past contract. But that's not how things work. Every dollar you use to overpay Welker based on past production rather than future expectations in one less dollar to use to convince a fourth year player to stick around through his prime. From this point onward, the Pats need to spend their cap money how they think it best helps the team. Using that money to overpay Welker because they didn't pay him enough early in his career is not how they do that.

Perhaps you misunderstood me.

Past production indicates future production, right? Well there were guys getting paid THREE times as much as Wes Welker who put up inferior numbers as he did. How long did this go on? FIVE years. Again, FIVE YEARS! Then he was franchised, and players that are worth something do not like that, generally. Franchising him again this year would almost be an insult IMO, although that would be $11.4 million guaranteed.

The bottom line is that he should not be low-balled again. The Pats had a top five receiver in production for five years (FIRST in receptions), and they paid him $3.62 million a year. That's kind of outrageous. He has not slowed down, either. He's set for the biggest chance he will ever have to make big money. His production has justified this big money. Saying that he outplayed his past contract is beyond understatement. He was kinda robbed, ask me...regardless of the contract he signed.

Sticking with the Patriots should not trump his BUSINESS decision to FINALLY get the contract he deserves. He's got about 4-5 years left in him to perform at a high level at his position if he's lucky.

As somebody else said, some people may appreciate Wes Welker a lot more when he is gone. He moves the chains. It's easy for fans to take him for granted, sit back and expect him to always be there even though he made jack squat in New England, really. But he's not going to take much less than his market value, which is a lot more than some people think. This guy is the best slot receiver in the NFL, bar-none. He's almost redefined the position, actually.

Ivan · 01-23-2013, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Meat

Perhaps you misunderstood me.

Past production indicates future production, right? Well there were guys getting paid THREE times as much as Wes Welker who put up inferior numbers as he did. How long did this go on? FIVE years. Again, FIVE YEARS! Then he was franchised, and players that are worth something do not like that, generally.

The bottom line is that he should not be low-balled again. The Pats had a top five receiver in production for five years (FIRST in receptions), and they paid him $3.62 million a year. That's kind of outrageous. He has not slowed down, either. He's set for the biggest chance he will ever have to make big money. His production has justified this big money. Saying that he outplayed his past contract is beyond understatement. He was kinda robbed, ask me...regardless of the contract he signed.

Sticking with the Patriots should not trump his BUSINESS decision to FINALLY get the contract he deserves. He's got about 4-5 years left in him to perform at a high level at his position if he's lucky.

As somebody else said, some people may appreciate Wes Welker a lot more when he is gone. He moves the chains. It's easy to for fans to take him for granted, sit back and expect him to always be there even though he made jack squat in New England, really. But he's not going to take much less than his market value, which is a lot more than some people think. This guy is the best slot receiver in the NFL, bar-none. He's almost redefined the position, actually.

Actually you misunderstood them. You see the people you are arguing with know that what really matters is height and 40 time, not actual play and production, and they know that 25 year old who sucks is really much better than a 31 year old who plays like a HOF player. They know that Hart Lee Dykes > Jerry Rice, and Chad Jackson > Wes Welker. They are true Maddenites.

***Brady_to_Moss*** · 01-23-2013, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannydyn

I'd get rid of Lloyd before I get rid of Welker. At least WW can take a hit, and more importantly get substantial YAC.

Lloyd is an imbecile who collapses as soon as he catches the ball. He was also brought in to stretch the field, but I can count the number of deep catches he's made, on one hand.

900 yards receiving and 50 1st downs..should have cut him week before the ravens game

nashvillepatsfan · 01-23-2013, 11:57 PM

If the FO was capable of drafting WRs, I would say let him walk.

***DaBruinz*** · 01-24-2013, 01:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1%er

I can go either way with this. Sometimes like many people in this forum I want him back because I don't necessarily like change and I'm scared of the unknown.

Is WW on the decline is my next question so when I take a look at the numbers and a few things stick out,

1. Welker was target the most of any year in his career last year but yet caught the lowest percentage,

2007 - 77%
2008 - 74%
2009 - 76%
2010 - 70%
2011 - 71%
2012 - 68%

2. His FD, YPC, YAC, Yards and TD numbers were both down from 2011.
3. He fumbled more times this season than he did in the 4 years combined.

So yes he is on a decline.

Then my next question how much of what WW does is a product of scheme and coaching? And I don't know.

I guess I'd like to have him back but only on are terms. If him coming back is going to burden us in a way that we cannot keep are other key FA and make 1-2 really good signings I'd rather roll the dice and see if we can fill the void another way.

The Welker era has to end sometime soon and I can say without a doubt his best years are behind him so if its over now I will not complain that much.

Gotta love when people play with stats and don't offer comparisons.

First, Welker's YPC was down from 2011, yes. However, it was still HIGHER than his career average which was 11.0 prior to the start of this season .

Secondly, this was Welker's second highest total for receiving yards in his career.

Third, Welker fumbled 3 times this season. The previous 4 years combined was 5 times. So, you fall flat on your face with that example.

Fourth, to say that Welker is on the decline because his TD receptions are down is a fallacy. It totally disregards the fact that the Pats RAN the ball for TDs more than they have in previous years and Brady threw 5 less this year than the previous year. They also spread the ball out more. You had Lloyd with 4, Edelman with 3, and Woodhead with 3 besides the ones to Gronk (11) and Hernandez (5) .

So, for you to come to the conclusion that Welker is on the decline is really flawed because your argument is flawed.

hovis · 01-24-2013, 04:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DocHoliday

You are equally high if you think another team will pay him that much.

Franchise tag is roughly ~ 11/12. Why would anyone pay multiple years above that?

Last time I checked, you can't franchise another team's player, so that number is irrelevant. Someone will pay more because there will be a bidding war. There are plenty of teams with deep pockets and even deeper needs.

UK_Pat37 · 01-24-2013, 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Meat

Do you people realize how LITTLE the Patriots have paid Welker for the type of production he's put up for YEARS? It's really quite embarrassing.

In 2007, the Patriots signed Welker to a 5-year $18.1 million contract...that's $3.62 million a year for 5 years. During that time, the only season he didn't have WELL over 100 receptions was in 2010, the year after he tore his MCL and ACL in week 17. He STILL had 86 catches in 2010.

During this 5-year stretch, Wes Welker has had the MOST receptions and the 4th most yards of any receiver in the NFL. Again, he's making $3.62 million a year during this 5-YEAR stretch. Are you kidding me? It's true. They could have rewarded him for all the value he brought beyond his contract but they didn't.

Then the Patriots FINALLY showed him the money he deserved (for a long time) last year...but they didn't give him a contract...they franchised him only for one year. What if he had a career-ending injury this year?

If I'm Wes Welker, I'm chasing the money at this point in my career. The Patriots simply have not done right by him FOR SIX YEARS, basically. Now you see a whole bunch of Patriot fans wanting to low-ball him again, after he has not been payed his due EVER? I don't think so.

If nothing else, the Patriots owe it to him for what he has ALREADY done and not be compensated for.

Also, Welker never complained about any of this.

As far as I can see, Welker has already been had at an unreal discount, and he shouldn't settle for another one. Pay him what he deserves FINALLY, or he should go elsewhere.

That's like going to my boss and saying 'hey, I'm due my pay rise but I won't just settle for the average increase as I feel I more than earned my pay grade before this and you got me at a discount. So, I think you should over pay me for my worth now so that you can make up what I feel I should be owed'.

See how that sounds now? Business doesn't work like that.

***1%er*** · 01-24-2013, 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaBruinz

Gotta love when people play with stats and don't offer comparisons.

First, Welker's YPC was down from 2011, yes. However, it was still HIGHER than his career average which was 11.0 prior to the start of this season .

Secondly, this was Welker's second highest total for receiving yards in his career.

Third, Welker fumbled 3 times this season. The previous 4 years combined was 5 times. So, you fall flat on your face with that example.

Fourth, to say that Welker is on the decline because his TD receptions are down is a fallacy. It totally disregards the fact that the Pats RAN the ball for TDs more than they have in previous years and Brady threw 5 less this year than the previous year. They also spread the ball out more. You had Lloyd with 4, Edelman with 3, and Woodhead with 3 besides the ones to Gronk (11) and Hernandez (5) .

So, for you to come to the conclusion that Welker is on the decline is really flawed because your argument is flawed.

All this says is blah blah I love WW and I don't care if stats decline.