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Pats record when facing teams a 2nd time

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by DaBruinz, Feb 4, 2012.

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  1. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #50 Jersey

    after the 1st time was a loss..

    Anyone have what it is???

    I know that the last time the Pats lost twice to the same team was the Jets in 2010. And then Indy in 2006. Denver in 2005. The 2nd loss was in the play-offs for all 3..
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2012
  2. reflexblue

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    #91 Jersey

    All i know is that the second time around they Pats very, very rarely lose. I think its some ridiculously lopsided record. This is a great point no has brought up so far.
  3. Elijah

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    #11 Jersey

    We lost to the Jets twice in 2010, not 2009. But to me, it actually looks like they lose twice quite commonly, especially since you don't usually get too many chances to play a team twice and they've lost both games 3 times in the last 6 seasons.
  4. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    You play at least 3 teams twice every year.
  5. TX_Patriot

    TX_Patriot Rookie

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    There was another thread floating around that last couple days that had some numbers...I wanted to say they were 11-2 in that scenario, but I don't think it counted the Jets last year because we lost the first, then won the second meeting, then lost the third....something weird like that. Anyway we lost to the Broncos in 2005 during the regular season and the playoffs...The Colts in 2006 as well.
  6. jbb9s

    jbb9s Rookie

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    this is correct. the record DaBruinz is looking for is technically consecutive losses to the same team in the same year. They were talking about this on the ESPN Radio late Sunday night - I believe it's hosted by Jimmy V's brother.

    Basically it never happens except that 2007 AFCCG (2006 season) and as someone mentioned the Broncos when they lost by 8 in week 6 of the 2005 season and then got hosed by the Bailey touchback.
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2012
  7. Elijah

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    #11 Jersey

    I thought we were only talking about times when the second/third meeting is in the playoffs?
  8. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Read the OP. He asked the Patriots record facing a team the 2nd time when it lost the first.
  9. cmasspatsfan

    cmasspatsfan Rookie

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    Some kid called in Felger and Mazz yesterday and looked back to see how many times we lost to the same team three times in a row, we lost to the Giants in SB 42, this year and this is the third meeting. Its only happened twice to BB and Brady. We lost three consecutive games to Indy and Denver, this is over a multi year period obviously as it takes sometimes 4-5 years to see some teams three times.
  10. 102 Pat

    102 Pat Rookie

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    #85 Jersey

    No need for the media to use anything logical at this point...:bricks:
  11. PatsFanSince74

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    Mumble. Grumble. Why do I always have to be the one to do this? Should be making the goddam chili for tomorrow. Mumble. Mumble.

    I looked only at the Belichick Brady years; therefore didn't look at 2000 or 2008.

    I looked at all the instances where the Pats played a team two or more times and lost at least one of those games.

    Here's what you see:

    There have been 18 instances of the Pats playing a team two or more times in a season and losing at least one of those games.

    Won the first time, Lost the second time: seven instances including to the Giants in SB XLII and the Ravens in the 2009 season playoffs.

    Lost the first time, won the second time: seven instances, including SBXXXVI and the Steelers in the AFCCG in the 2004 season.

    Lost the first time, Lost the second time: two instances, Broncos in 2005, Colts in 2006.

    Played a team three times:

    Jets 2006: Won, Lost, Won in the playoffs

    Jets 2010: Lost, Won, Lost in the playoffs.


    So, when the Belichick/Brady Pats have played a team twice, they have only lost the second game after a loss in two instances and have beaten the teams to whom they have already lost seven times. So, they have beaten teams that beat them earlier in the season 78% of the time.

    They have lost to a team they played three times in two instances. On one instance, they lost two of three in one season to a team that they played three times. In the other instance, they won two of three.
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2012
  12. DaBruinz

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    #50 Jersey

    Nope. I meant in general.. The three times I found just happened to be in the play-offs..
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2012
  13. Ivan

    Ivan On the Roster

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    #75 Jersey


    Well done, now stop your b.tching and make the goddamn chili....................
  14. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    And 78% is awfully close to both the regular season and playoff records they have posted, so in other words, they win an awful lot in those situaitons, just like they do it all situaitons.
  15. Ron Sellers

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    Since the start of the 2001 season the Pats are 11-2 (10-2 with Brady as QB) when facing a team again in the same season, after having lost to that team in the most recent previous meeting. The two losses were both in the playoffs: to the Broncos in 2005 and to the Colts in 2006.

    There was a time when 'Pats never lose a 2nd time' was a popular phrase because in 2001 they beat the Jets, Dolphins and Rams after losing to them earlier that year. Then there was Miami in 2002, Buffalo after the 'they hate their coach' game in 2003, Pittsburgh in the AFCCG in 2004, and the Pats were 6-0 in those type games before losing to Denver in the 2005 playoffs. The Pats also won one of these type games over the Jets in the 2006 playoffs two weeks before they lost to the Colts for a second time that year. They beat Miami late in 2008 after losing the early wildcat game; in 2009 and 2010 they beat the Jets after losing in the 2nd game of both those years; and this year they beat the Bills after losing in week 3.
  16. PatsFanSince74

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    Geez, I'm getting enough of that kind of **** from my wife!
  17. PatsFanSince74

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    Geez, you must have studied stuhtistix. You make a very interesting point.

    Their Regular Season record over the same years is 123--37, or 77%. When you add in the Playoffs to date, it's 139--42, or also 77%.

    So, the conclusion would be that the Pats' performance in games against a team to whom they lost earlier in the same season is so highly correlated to their overall performance that there is no meaningful conclusion to be drawn from their record in games played after a loss to the same team beyond saying something like, "The Pats, in the years under consideration, tend to win around 77% of the time."
  18. strngplyr

    strngplyr Rookie

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    Since Tom Brady took over as QB in 2001, New England is 11-2 when facing a team the second time after a loss. I broke it down in another thread, I will try to find the detailed post i wrote up and post it here.

    I do believe I also included 2008 as I was more reflecting on BB's coaching, but I started at the TB era.
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2012
  19. strngplyr

    strngplyr Rookie

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    Found it, here was my post with a breakdown of our rematches after losing (bolded games = the losses after losing in the first match up):


    Last edited: Feb 4, 2012
  20. PatsFanSince74

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    You leave out that the Jets trounced us the third time we played them last season and we actually went LWL, which your analysis ignores.

    And, if you're doing "apples to apples," I think you really have to limit the analysis to seasons in which Brady was the starting QB, ruling out your 2008 season data point (otherwise to be consistent you would have to include 2000 if you are trying to capture the Belichick era, which is, I think, not the right series to capture. But in any event, it's either "Belichick" or "Belichick/Brady," not "Belichick/Brady/Cassell after the Pats started winning in 2001." I went with "Belichick/Brady" since that's what we're dealing with now.

    Finally, if you take out the other instance where the Pats played a team three times (when they went WLW against the Jets in the 2006 season), you end up with nine data points and a 7--2 record.

    As Andy observed, that is the same win percentage as they have overall in the same time frame. So, the only conclusion that we can draw statistically, i.e., not anecdotally, is that the Patriots play very well consistently.
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2012
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