Pats record when facing teams a 2nd time

[DaBruinz]

after the 1st time was a loss..

Anyone have what it is???

I know that the last time the Pats lost twice to the same team was the Jets in 2010. And then Indy in 2006. Denver in 2005. The 2nd loss was in the play-offs for all 3..

 

[reflexblue]

after the 1st time was a loss..

Anyone have what it is???

I know that the last time the Pats lost twice to the same team was the Jets in 2009. And then Indy in 2006. Denver in 2005. The 2nd loss was in the play-offs for all 3..

All i know is that the second time around they Pats very, very rarely lose. I think its some ridiculously lopsided record. This is a great point no has brought up so far.

 

[jah]

after the 1st time was a loss..

Anyone have what it is???

I know that the last time the Pats lost twice to the same team was the Jets in 2009. And then Indy in 2006. Denver in 2005. The 2nd loss was in the play-offs for all 3..

We lost to the Jets twice in 2010, not 2009. But to me, it actually looks like they lose twice quite commonly, especially since you don't usually get too many chances to play a team twice and they've lost both games 3 times in the last 6 seasons.

 

[Ring 6]

We lost to the Jets twice in 2010, not 2009. But to me, it actually looks like they lose twice quite commonly, especially since you don't usually get too many chances to play a team twice and they've lost both games 3 times in the last 6 seasons.

You play at least 3 teams twice every year.

 

[TX_Patriot]

There was another thread floating around that last couple days that had some numbers...I wanted to say they were 11-2 in that scenario, but I don't think it counted the Jets last year because we lost the first, then won the second meeting, then lost the third....something weird like that. Anyway we lost to the Broncos in 2005 during the regular season and the playoffs...The Colts in 2006 as well.

 

[jbb9s]

There was another thread floating around that last couple days that had some numbers...I wanted to say they were 11-2 in that scenario, but I don't think it counted the Jets last year because we lost the first, then won the second meeting, then lost the third....something weird like that. Anyway we lost to the Broncos in 2005 during the regular season and the playoffs...The Colts in 2006 as well.

this is correct. the record DaBruinz is looking for is technically consecutive losses to the same team in the same year. They were talking about this on the ESPN Radio late Sunday night - I believe it's hosted by Jimmy V's brother.

Basically it never happens except that 2007 AFCCG (2006 season) and as someone mentioned the Broncos when they lost by 8 in week 6 of the 2005 season and then got hosed by the Bailey touchback.

 

[jah]

You play at least 3 teams twice every year.

I thought we were only talking about times when the second/third meeting is in the playoffs?

 

[Ring 6]

I thought we were only talking about times when the second/third meeting is in the playoffs?

Read the OP. He asked the Patriots record facing a team the 2nd time when it lost the first.

 

[cmasspatsfan]

Some kid called in Felger and Mazz yesterday and looked back to see how many times we lost to the same team three times in a row, we lost to the Giants in SB 42, this year and this is the third meeting. Its only happened twice to BB and Brady. We lost three consecutive games to Indy and Denver, this is over a multi year period obviously as it takes sometimes 4-5 years to see some teams three times.

 

[102 Pat]

All i know is that the second time around they Pats very, very rarely lose. I think its some ridiculously lopsided record. This is a great point no has brought up so far.

No need for the media to use anything logical at this point...:bricks:

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Mumble. Grumble. Why do I always have to be the one to do this? Should be making the goddam chili for tomorrow. Mumble. Mumble.

I looked only at the Belichick Brady years; therefore didn't look at 2000 or 2008.

I looked at all the instances where the Pats played a team two or more times and lost at least one of those games.

Here's what you see:

There have been 18 instances of the Pats playing a team two or more times in a season and losing at least one of those games.

Won the first time, Lost the second time: seven instances including to the Giants in SB XLII and the Ravens in the 2009 season playoffs.

Lost the first time, won the second time: seven instances, including SBXXXVI and the Steelers in the AFCCG in the 2004 season.

Lost the first time, Lost the second time: two instances, Broncos in 2005, Colts in 2006.

Played a team three times:

Jets 2006: Won, Lost, Won in the playoffs

Jets 2010: Lost, Won, Lost in the playoffs.


So, when the Belichick/Brady Pats have played a team twice, they have only lost the second game after a loss in two instances and have beaten the teams to whom they have already lost seven times. So, they have beaten teams that beat them earlier in the season 78% of the time.

They have lost to a team they played three times in two instances. On one instance, they lost two of three in one season to a team that they played three times. In the other instance, they won two of three.

 

[DaBruinz]

I thought we were only talking about times when the second/third meeting is in the playoffs?

Nope. I meant in general.. The three times I found just happened to be in the play-offs..

 

[Ivan]

Mumble. Grumble. Why do I always have to be the one to do this? Should be making the goddam chili for tomorrow. Mumble. Mumble.

I looked only at the Belichick Brady years; therefore didn't look at 2000 or 2008.

I looked at all the instances where the Pats played a team two or more times and lost at least one of those games.

Here's what you see:

There have been 18 instances of the Pats playing a team two or more times in a season and losing at least one of those games.

Won the first time, Lost the second time: seven instances including to the Giants in SB XLII and the Ravens in the 2009 season playoffs.

Lost the first time, won the second time: seven instances, including SBXXXVI and the Steelers in the AFCCG in the 2004 season.

Lost the first time, Lost the second time: two instances, Broncos in 2005, Colts in 2006.

Played a team three times:

Jets 2006: Won, Lost, Won in the playoffs

Jets 2010: Lost, Won, Lost in the playoffs.


So, when the Belichick/Brady Pats have played a team twice, they have only lost the second game after a loss in two instances and have beaten the teams to whom they have already lost seven times. So, they have beaten teams that beat them earlier in the season 78% of the time.

They have lost to a team they played three times in two instances. On one instance, they lost two of three in one season to a team that they played three times. In the other instance, they won two of three.

Well done, now stop your b.tching and make the goddamn chili....................

 

[Ring 6]

Mumble. Grumble. Why do I always have to be the one to do this? Should be making the goddam chili for tomorrow. Mumble. Mumble.

I looked only at the Belichick Brady years; therefore didn't look at 2000 or 2008.

I looked at all the instances where the Pats played a team two or more times and lost at least one of those games.

Here's what you see:

There have been 18 instances of the Pats playing a team two or more times in a season and losing at least one of those games.

Won the first time, Lost the second time: seven instances including to the Giants in SB XLII and the Ravens in the 2009 season playoffs.

Lost the first time, won the second time: seven instances, including SBXXXVI and the Steelers in the AFCCG in the 2004 season.

Lost the first time, Lost the second time: two instances, Broncos in 2005, Colts in 2006.

Played a team three times:

Jets 2006: Won, Lost, Won in the playoffs

Jets 2010: Lost, Won, Lost in the playoffs.


So, when the Belichick/Brady Pats have played a team twice, they have only lost the second game after a loss in two instances and have beaten the teams to whom they have already lost seven times. So, they have beaten teams that beat them earlier in the season 78% of the time.

They have lost to a team they played three times in two instances. On one instance, they lost two of three in one season to a team that they played three times. In the other instance, they won two of three.

And 78% is awfully close to both the regular season and playoff records they have posted, so in other words, they win an awful lot in those situaitons, just like they do it all situaitons.

 

[Ron Sellers]

after the 1st time was a loss..

Anyone have what it is???

I know that the last time the Pats lost twice to the same team was the Jets in 2010. And then Indy in 2006. Denver in 2005. The 2nd loss was in the play-offs for all 3..

Since the start of the 2001 season the Pats are 11-2 (10-2 with Brady as QB) when facing a team again in the same season, after having lost to that team in the most recent previous meeting. The two losses were both in the playoffs: to the Broncos in 2005 and to the Colts in 2006.

There was a time when 'Pats never lose a 2nd time' was a popular phrase because in 2001 they beat the Jets, Dolphins and Rams after losing to them earlier that year. Then there was Miami in 2002, Buffalo after the 'they hate their coach' game in 2003, Pittsburgh in the AFCCG in 2004, and the Pats were 6-0 in those type games before losing to Denver in the 2005 playoffs. The Pats also won one of these type games over the Jets in the 2006 playoffs two weeks before they lost to the Colts for a second time that year. They beat Miami late in 2008 after losing the early wildcat game; in 2009 and 2010 they beat the Jets after losing in the 2nd game of both those years; and this year they beat the Bills after losing in week 3.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Well done, now stop your b.tching and make the goddamn chili....................

Geez, I'm getting enough of that kind of **** from my wife!

 

[PatsFanSince74]

And 78% is awfully close to both the regular season and playoff records they have posted, so in other words, they win an awful lot in those situaitons, just like they do it all situaitons.

Geez, you must have studied stuhtistix. You make a very interesting point.

Their Regular Season record over the same years is 123--37, or 77%. When you add in the Playoffs to date, it's 139--42, or also 77%.

So, the conclusion would be that the Pats' performance in games against a team to whom they lost earlier in the same season is so highly correlated to their overall performance that there is no meaningful conclusion to be drawn from their record in games played after a loss to the same team beyond saying something like, "The Pats, in the years under consideration, tend to win around 77% of the time."

 

[strngplyr]

Since Tom Brady took over as QB in 2001, New England is 11-2 when facing a team the second time after a loss. I broke it down in another thread, I will try to find the detailed post i wrote up and post it here.

I do believe I also included 2008 as I was more reflecting on BB's coaching, but I started at the TB era.

 

[strngplyr]

Found it, here was my post with a breakdown of our rematches after losing (bolded games = the losses after losing in the first match up):

I feel pretty good, we've gone back to the 34 since this game and our D has steadily improved since then against both the pass and run. We also won't have Haynesworth getting pushed around and run over.

I think our offense will be better prepared, remember the Giants basically copied the Steelers and played a ton of man coverage and beat us up at the line. I think we'll have better answers for it knowing its coming and use more shifts, bunch formations, and line up guys like Hernandez in the backfield in order to get a free release.

As for our defense, I think if we stay healthy we'll be set. Things went downhill for us once Spikes got hurt on (I believe) the 1st drive of the 3rd quarter, followed by Chung going down later.

On the Giants final 2 scoring drives they were also helped by a very long Arrington PI call and a Sergio Brown PI call on the goal line, giving them first and goal. Also as a trickle down effect, with Spikes and Guyton injured during the game, we had Tracy White covering Jake Ballard for what turned into the game winning touchdown.

Next, we won't make the same mistakes twice. Brady forced a ball to Gronkowski with Welker open underneath and some room to run, the ball was picked off. Brady was also strip sacked, honestly, Tom is one of the better QB's at protecting the ball while getting hit, he only ever loses the ball when someone swipes at it from behind. The other turnover, which really killed us more than anything, was the Edelman fumble on our own 10 yard line.

If Tom takes what is in front of him and we mix in a good amount of running, we should walk away as Champions. No more forcing the ball to Gronk because he's a playmaker, if he isn't open, he isn't open. That interception to Gronk is the one that bothered me the most, it reminded me of the first Jets game of 2010 with Moss.

Since 2001, New England is 11-2 after losing to a team earlier in a season and facing them again later:

10-3 L New York 9/23/01
17-16 W New York 12/2/01

30-10 L Miami 10/7/01
20-13 W Miami 12/22/01

24-17 L STL 11/18/01
20-17 W STL 2/3/02

26-13 L Miami 10/6/02
27-24 W Miami 12/29/02

31-0 L Buffalo 9/7/03
31-0 W Buffalo 12/27/03

34-20 L Pitt 10/31/04
41-27 W Pitt 1/23/05

28-20 L Denver 10/16/05
27-13 L Denver 1/14/06

27-20 L Indianapolis 11/5/06
38-34 L Indianapolis 1/21/07

17-14 L New York Jets 11/12/06
37-16 W New York Jets 1/7/07 We defeated New York 24-17 on 9/17 as well, but this loss was before another game

38-13 L Miami 9/21/08
48-28 W Miami 11/23/08

16-9 L New York Jets 9/20/09
31-14 W New York Jets 11/22/09

28-14 L New York Jets 9/19/10
45-3 W New York Jets 12/6/10

34-31 L Buffalo 9/25/11
49-21 W Buffalo 1/1/12

24-20 L New York Giants 11/6/11
??-?? ? New York Giants 2/5/12

We've simply been very good about not letting a team beat us twice in a season, we adjust well.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Found it, here was my post with a breakdown of our rematches after losing (bolded games = the losses after losing in the first match up):

You leave out that the Jets trounced us the third time we played them last season and we actually went LWL, which your analysis ignores.

And, if you're doing "apples to apples," I think you really have to limit the analysis to seasons in which Brady was the starting QB, ruling out your 2008 season data point (otherwise to be consistent you would have to include 2000 if you are trying to capture the Belichick era, which is, I think, not the right series to capture. But in any event, it's either "Belichick" or "Belichick/Brady," not "Belichick/Brady/Cassell after the Pats started winning in 2001." I went with "Belichick/Brady" since that's what we're dealing with now.

Finally, if you take out the other instance where the Pats played a team three times (when they went WLW against the Jets in the 2006 season), you end up with nine data points and a 7--2 record.

As Andy observed, that is the same win percentage as they have overall in the same time frame. So, the only conclusion that we can draw statistically, i.e., not anecdotally, is that the Patriots play very well consistently.