Originally Posted by GrassyKneel

And yet in his first Super Bowl run he threw 1 TD and 1 pick in 3 games, had a 77.3 rating overall, and hoisted the Lombardi essentially due to the defensive prowess of the team. Yet no one ever hesitates to credit him with that win when touting him as the GOAT.

See how it works both ways?

Quarterbacks are like goalies. They quite often get too much credit when the team wins and too much blame when the team loses. Except here, when the team loses, there are a huge number of posters who for one reason or another are incapable of acknowledging Brady's share of the blame at all.

Originally Posted by GrassyKneel

You really don't see it and it's amazing. Reread your post and imagine it was a Colts fan trying to justify all the reasons Manning lost in the playoffs.

2 times blaming referees, 4 times blaming injury, and once writing off a pick for being in a "desperation" type situation. How would you react to these justifications coming from a Manning supporter?

Originally Posted by AndyJohnson

You must either be about 14, or you didn't start watching football until after 2001 if you are trying to diminish Tom Bradys contributions to winning that title.

Of course nice job trying to make a stat argument out of 3 games, one where he playing in a blizzard and another when he was injured in the first half.

Originally Posted by GrassyKneel

So you're trying to tell me that the 2001 New England Patriots weren't a defense first team that chugged through the playoffs on QB game management and exceptional defensive play, including holding the "greatest show on turf" to 17 points?

It's not about a stats argument. We all saw that Super Bowl. We all know how it happened. Yes, Brady played admirably for being in the situation he was in, but that Super Bowl was won primarily by defense and there really isn't any arguing that.

Originally Posted by Deus Irae

I "see" it fine. I see, for example, that you haven't bothered actually responding to the substance of my post.

Kindly show, for example, the Colts playoff losses where Manning was completely hobbled or injured in-game.

Then, perhaps, you could show the games where his #1 or #2 receivers were lost in the game prior to the loss.

Then you could show me how the Brady toss at the end of the Ravens game is something to be held against him given the circumstances at the time.

This would be about something called "context". Let's just start with that, instead of you merely trolling.

Originally Posted by Deus Irae

2001 was won by Brady's final drive. How many final drives to win a Super Bowl does Peyton have?

Originally Posted by Fencer

Tunescribe,

I'm sorry for whatever miseries you're going through in your life that make you have to lash out, repeatedly, at one stranger after another. I hope things improve for you.

One thought: It's early in the calendar year. Your insurance would probably cover some psychiatrist visits, even if you used up your quota last year.

Everybody else (including those who agree with Tunescribe on football matters),

There's no call for extremism here on either side. Brady made good plays in the Ravens game and he made bad plays. Why did he make bad plays? Some combination of him and his coaching and the Ravens' play and the Ravens' coaching and the weather and the play of his teammates (which in turn was influenced by all the same factors).

Obviously, it's a hope of any defense to put the QB into unexpected or otherwise difficult situations, and then hope he fails to perform. Well, the Ravens succeeded at that. The top-down view is that they held the Pats to 13 points. The bottom-up view is Brady did visibly badly on a number of plays.

Now, in the Pats' defense on the 13 points, the refs were calling things in a way that would lead to a lower-scoring game, and there was wind, and the first INT was very (un)lucky. Maybe the Ravens' team (Boldin in particular) was just better-built for the circumstances. But in fact Flacco was complete passes to a covered Boldin while Brady was missing to an open Hernandez. So yeah, this was a pretty shaky performance by Brady.

And overall, Brady's laid a few eggs in the second halves of big games.

Originally Posted by GrassyKneel

And now it's "trolling" because you don't like it.

Originally Posted by GrassyKneel

Face it bucko, when Manning has mediocre games in the playoffs, anything Colts fans said to try and justify it were excuses and it was all on his shoulders. When Brady has mediocre games in the playoffs, anything said to justify it are true and righteous reasons! Anyone who dares to question otherwise, including your fellow fans, are crazy or wrong.

Originally Posted by GrassyKneel

If you leave the bubble of this forum and look in from the outside, you'll realize that only here does it work that way. Out there, Brady is judged just like everyone else, and people can call a spade a spade when he doesn't come out to play. But I'm sure you'll find some way to rationalize that away too. Maybe even one to add to the "conspiracy theory" thread!!!

Originally Posted by Deus Irae

I leave this forum all the time. It works "that way" everywhere. Your posts would be ridiculous in any forum. They'd find sympathetic audiences because of anti-Patriots sympathies.