GrassyKneel

Certainly not. Actually, I'm not arguing that Brady choked at all. I'm merely commenting on the double standard by which he's measured here.

For instance, Manning's first pick in the Baltimore @ Den game was a perfect pass to Decker, which due to what some would call uncalled PI and some would not, bounced off Decker's hands/chest straight up into the air resulting in a pick 6.

Go to the 'hatorade' thread and see how many posters here were willing to call a spade a spade and write that one off as sheer bad luck. Nope. It was on Manning. "ANOTHER PICK IN THE PLAYOFFS! WOOHOO! THERE HE GOES AGAIN!"

Yet Brady's tipped pass, which one could argue was tipped at the line and therefore never even got close to its intended target, is not judged the same way.

My opinion: Football is a team sport, and no one guy can do it by themselves. Manning put his team in a position to win the game where only a miracle could take it away and that miracle floated over Rahim Moore's head. No doubt the pick in OT was a terrible decision, and he gets his share of the blame for it, but on this forum, that share of the blame is basically 100%.

Brady had a game against Baltimore that was mediocre at best, a terrible rating, more picks than TDs, 13 points total and none in the second half. Is it his fault they lost? No, because the guys around him weren't able to step up their own games to help out and take up the slack, which is what a TEAM has to do to win. But that doesn't absolve him of his share of the blame, which many here are trying to do.

It IS a double standard, and I'm not really sure how anyone can a) not see it, or b) see it and still argue against it.

GrassyKneel

Stroke at the keyboard? Seriously, this doesn't make any sense. I have no opinion of Tom Brady as a person. I don't know Tom Brady as a person, and neither do you. His views and morals? WTF?

Tom Brady is a football player. I judge him by his football play. I don't know him. I'm not his friend. I don't know his inner thoughts and feelings, nor do I know his views and morals. No one here does.

Seriously man, that's gotta be one of the most nonsensical and weird posts I've ever seen on here.

Deus Irae

This argument of yours is absolutely useless without context.

__________________
"The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."
- Marcus Aurelius

Tunescribe

"He" went 10-0 and "he" is 7-7? It's misleadingly myopic to evaluate things this way. Certainly, Brady's play should never be beyond criticism, yet his performances in the 7-7 stretch can hardly be deemed "choking." If you compare and contrast the Patriots' overall style of TEAM play (and various emphases) pre- and post-2007, you'll note some interesting discrepancies. Considered in a vacuum, none of Brady's post-2007 efforts (except possibly for 2010 vs. Baltimore) could be considered attributable for defeat.

__________________

Beware ... The Patriot Attack Parrot!

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

GrassyKneel

And yet in his first Super Bowl run he threw 1 TD and 1 pick in 3 games, had a 77.3 rating overall, and hoisted the Lombardi essentially due to the defensive prowess of the team. Yet no one ever hesitates to credit him with that win when touting him as the GOAT.

See how it works both ways?

Quarterbacks are like goalies. They quite often get too much credit when the team wins and too much blame when the team loses. Except here, when the team loses, there are a huge number of posters who for one reason or another are incapable of acknowledging Brady's share of the blame at all.

Fencer

Tunescribe,

I'm sorry for whatever miseries you're going through in your life that make you have to lash out, repeatedly, at one stranger after another. I hope things improve for you.

One thought: It's early in the calendar year. Your insurance would probably cover some psychiatrist visits, even if you used up your quota last year.

Everybody else (including those who agree with Tunescribe on football matters),

There's no call for extremism here on either side. Brady made good plays in the Ravens game and he made bad plays. Why did he make bad plays? Some combination of him and his coaching and the Ravens' play and the Ravens' coaching and the weather and the play of his teammates (which in turn was influenced by all the same factors).

Obviously, it's a hope of any defense to put the QB into unexpected or otherwise difficult situations, and then hope he fails to perform. Well, the Ravens succeeded at that. The top-down view is that they held the Pats to 13 points. The bottom-up view is Brady did visibly badly on a number of plays.

Now, in the Pats' defense on the 13 points, the refs were calling things in a way that would lead to a lower-scoring game, and there was wind, and the first INT was very (un)lucky. Maybe the Ravens' team (Boldin in particular) was just better-built for the circumstances. But in fact Flacco was complete passes to a covered Boldin while Brady was missing to an open Hernandez. So yeah, this was a pretty shaky performance by Brady.

And overall, Brady's laid a few eggs in the second halves of big games.

__________________
"To lose one parent may be regarded as a misfortune; to lose both looks like carelessness." -- Oscar Wilde

Deus Irae

First, there is no double standard. Well, that's not actually true, as some degree of double standard tends to creep in when comparing favorites to non-favorites. However, you choose to ignore or dismiss the arguments made that separate the two and insulate most of the discussion from the argument of "double standard". That's not the same thing.

Second, I assume you're joking by trying to bring in the "haterade" thread, given its title.

Third, Manning is a choking dog. It is what it is. He's gone pick-6 against the Saints, and his pick against the Broncos might just as well have been another pick 6. I could point to other games, but those are recent and funny.

Fourth, and I won't even get too far into it, Manning goes one-and-done like it's going out of style. For all the *****ing that you and others are doing about Brady, he usually wins a freaking game before losing.

The problem here is that you're taking a point that has a very small grain of something approaching truth and trying to pretend that it's a planet-sized and powerful argument. It's not.

2005: A 10-6 team is beaten by a 13-3 team. Brady throws a bonehead pass which results in a blown call by the officials and the awarding of a TD to the Broncos.
2006: Brady gets team to huge lead. The sick and injured defense could not hold off the Colts and the poor officiating (Face guarding?)

2007: Brady's ankle kept him immobile and allowed the Giants to tee off on him. Nonetheless, he got the team the lead at the end of the game

2008: No Brady, no playoffs

2009: Brady, still working his way back from injury, faces the Ravens without the newly lost Welker, leaving only Moss as an offensive weapon worth a damn. Sam Aiken was the WR3, for crying out loud.

2010: Brady screws the pooch on a simple screen. dumbass play, legit choke claim

2011: Brady had been injured for a good part of the season. In the SB, he sets a record for most completions in a row. He's then hit and clearly reinjured. Nonetheless, he still leads the team to the lead late in the 4th

2012: You haven't called it a choke, the second INT was obviously in a desperation type of situation, and the team was down 15. One can certainly wonder about his clock management prior to the half.

That's 2 unexcused chokes and one game where he wasn't choking but certainly wasn't getting it done at a high enough level. Now, could you show me the comparables for Peyton? Perhaps you could start with the season where he was shut out...

__________________
"The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."
- Marcus Aurelius

Frezo

Someday Brady and Belichick will be gone. The team will suck for a few years as it rebuilds from losing two of its most important pieces. Save your complaining for then. Just enjoy what we have now and be thankful you're not a fan of the Raiders or Jets, etc. There is no double standard here...just a single standard. We'll defend it to the death.

Here, have a beer with me and be happy you're a Pats fan.

AndyJohnson

Yup, thats 17-7.

Then don't claim a double standard when you accept one has clearly outperformend the other.

Actually he is 8-7 since winning his 3rd SB. Manning has yet to play in his 3rd and is 9-11 which is worse than 8-7.
In other words Bradys record is still better even if you ignore his 9-0 record in winning 3 SBs.


That depends on what you mean by double standard. They are judged the same, which eliminates the real meaning of double standard. Brady is thoroughly better which you seem to think means a double standard when pointing out.
Adrain Peterson is better than Fred Jackson is not an example of a double standard.

Only the sane and knowledgable ones.

Brady has put him self in a position where getting that 4th SB win will make him the GOAT QB. I don't know how you can 'ballwash' that.

Brady has been roundly criticized on this board. His contribution in that game is what it is. No player in NFL history plays well enough to win every game by himself, but Brady played well enough to win this one if the rest of the team did too. He was 3 drops and holding call from over 70% 3rd down conversions, ran up 428 yards, and had his team move the ball basically at will and come up short on plays they executed all season.
This thread is about 'choking' some type of lack of interest and 'body language'. This thread deserves an abortion.


The second one was meaningless. The first was a batted ball. Are you telling me he choked by having a ball batted by a DL straight to a defender?


Who said they don't count? The 2nd was garbage time, the first is really hard to blame on the QB.

8-7. 7 for 7 trips to the playoffs. The best record in the NFL and 7 division wins in those 7 years (discounting the one he didnt play injured) 4 trips to the AFCCG and 2 trips to the SB.
Are you telling me that is failure?

No one is beyond criticism, but not all deserve the same level.
You are crying that Patriot fans dare to not criticize Brady citing his abominable 8-7 playoff record since 2005, as if that is worse than Mannings 9-11 in his career.

GrassyKneel

You really don't see it and it's amazing. Reread your post and imagine it was a Colts fan trying to justify all the reasons Manning lost in the playoffs.

2 times blaming referees, 4 times blaming injury, and once writing off a pick for being in a "desperation" type situation. How would you react to these justifications coming from a Manning supporter?