OT: Student sent home for wearing Colts jersey - Page 4 - New England Patriots Forums

upstater1 · 02-06-2010, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmt57

The school has a dress code. You can wear the uniform - or, on that one day, wear black and gold. He disagreed with the rule and chose the path of civil disobedience. Considering he knew the rule and had been warned beforehand, the student and his father knew their would be consequences. At that point he had the option to change his shirt, but chose to go home instead.

While I don't care for the one and only option other than the uniform, the family knew the rules. If they felt so strongly as to get the ACLU involved, why couldn't they take the time to meet with the principal ahead of time and plead their case?

To me this is more of an example of people being overly sue-happy than denial of freedom to express yourself.

In hindsight they probably should have let the student wear the Colt's jersey just to avoid the media distraction and legal fees. The problem is they were backed into a corner; they had already made the rule and warned him it would be enforced. If they did nothing it sends a message that their rules mean nothing and can be broken without repercussion.

As for freedom of expression, I don't see how it applies. I'd like to express myself by wearing Pats gear to work every day, but the dress code doesn't allow for that. But as soon as I leave work I'm free to express myself however I want.

Why didn't they meet the principal ahead of the time?

I'm guessing they didn't imagine the guy would say, "Why don't you go back to Indiana!!"

As for your last question, are you being serious? Your boss would say to you, everyone can wear a Peyton Manning jersey, but it's expressly forbidden to wear a Brees jersey? Your owner could say that?

Plus, this is a public school, not a private business. Dress codes are allowed. Breaking dress codes by allowing NFL jerseys does not allow a Principal to dictate his preference for jerseys.

upstater1 · 02-06-2010, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PATSYLICIOUS

Oh I definitely agree with you here. The first few posts in the thread are a bit over the top. But I think they were joking (I hope they were).

I see the point you guys are trying to make I just don't think sports is really worth bowling over authority to make a point like this. If it was something religion related like saying you can wear your Kufi today but not your Yamaka then I could see that. I hope that doesn't spark another discussion here but just an example

To tell you the truth, I laughed at those early posts because I hate all things Colt-y, and thought this was funny. But then I read the article and realized that the situation was way over the top. I thought the kid had to go home for his own safety. I didn't realize he was tossed out of school and the principal told him to go back to Indiana. Suddenly things weren't so funny any more.

FloridaHerb · 02-06-2010, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PATSYLICIOUS

Oh I definitely agree with you here. The first few posts in the thread are a bit over the top. But I think they were joking (I hope they were).

I see the point you guys are trying to make I just don't think sports is really worth bowling over authority to make a point like this. If it was something religion related like saying you can wear your Kufi today but not your Yamaka then I could see that. I hope that doesn't spark another discussion here but just an example

LOL! I was actually going to say originally that I grew up as a Jewish kid in an area that was about 99% Christian and was constantly ragged on for my beliefs and THEN I was going to say something about rules and "just following orders" but then I remembered reading somewhere that all message board arguments end with someone being called a Nazi! It's true!! LOL!!! I'm sorry...you're right, not worth it! Sports related vs. political belief/religion isn't the same..

STILL the kid should have been allowed to wear his ugly blue jersey to school if for no other reason than we don't really want some Hoosier kid being a martyr among Colts fans!

PATSYLICIOUS · 02-06-2010, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by upstater1

It's not a stand to ask that your rights be respected. Allowing Saints jerseys and disallowing Colts jerseys isn't a rule, it's just jackarseity.

If the principal made a rule that said, kids formerly from Indiana need to spend lunchtime in a bathroom stall, would you follow it? This rule is not as loony as that but it's close.

Like I said in the last post, there are some situations that are worth taking a stand for. In my opinion, not being able to wear your favorite NFL teams colors isn't on my list. We've all followed a rule that we didn't agree with in the past, and one like this, just not worth it for me. The kid and his family chose to fight, we'll see where they get with it.

PatsFanSince74 · 02-06-2010, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PATSYLICIOUS

How's what I said UnAmerican. If you want to take your stand, go for it. But accept the consequences. If the kid becomes an icon and there is a mass revolution in the south for allowing clear breaches of the uniform code, great for him!

You miss the bigger point that is being made.

In my view, the original demand was unreasonable as it unfairly impinged on Mr. Frost's ability to express his profoundly-felt allegiance to a team, which he grew up supporting in Indiana, while at the same time allowing and encouraging his peers to express such an allegiance to the team that they had grown up supporting in Louisiana.

This unnecessary restriction was imposed in a forum, a school, where Mr. Frost had a reasonable expectation that he would be allowed to express his reasonable and legitimate allegiance in a reasonable and responsible way when others were being allowed, and indeed encouraged, so to express themselves. This is a classic case of abridging the rights of Free Speech of a minority, which sought only reasonable expression of such rights, while permitting the expression of the majority.

He did this only by wearing a Jersey; he did nothing to disrupt class nor did he behave in an inappropriate or disrespectful manner. He only used his person as a locus for making visible his support of the Colts (a team I despise) in a manner that I hold was protected by the First Amendment.

He even deferred to the request of the Principal to remove the Jersey at the time. Such deference implies and affirms his desire not to be disruptive but it also does not limit a later quest for remedies, informally or in court, in response to the Principal's actions.

It is the school that, I believe, should have to "suffer the consequences" of abridging Free Speech in this case.

Whatever "consequences" have been imposed on Brandon Frost are, in my view and in what I believe would be the view of a Federal Court, consequences that were imposed in response to what was per se an unfair and possibly illegal restraint.

As such, they are subject to expunction from Mr. Frost's record and a simple apology, which would settle the matter without unnecessary litigation.

[Ian, once again, I guess this belongs in a political forum or something.]

PatsFanSince74 · 02-06-2010, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PATSYLICIOUS

Like I said in the last post, there are some situations that are worth taking a stand for. In my opinion, not being able to wear your favorite NFL teams colors isn't on my list. We've all followed a rule that we didn't agree with in the past, and one like this, just not worth it for me. The kid and his family chose to fight, we'll see where they get with it.

Yes, but the first amendment is precisely about you, me or anyone else not being able to define the limits of reasonable Free Speech and what is "worth taking a stand for." The fact that the circumstances under discussion are "not on [your] list" is, with all respect, irrelevant.

PatsFanSince74 · 02-06-2010, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by upstater1

To tell you the truth, I laughed at those early posts because I hate all things Colt-y, and thought this was funny. But then I read the article and realized that the situation was way over the top. I thought the kid had to go home for his own safety. I didn't realize he was tossed out of school and the principal told him to go back to Indiana. Suddenly things weren't so funny any more.

Exactly. 100% right. As long as that can happen to one person in this country, it can happen to any of us and, as much as I might disdain the Dolts, I fully support Mr. Frost in this case. I have sent the article to a friend of mine who is one of the top two or three First Amendment Lawyers in the country and encouraged their review of the circumstances and contact with family on a pro bono basis.

PATSYLICIOUS · 02-06-2010, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PatsFanSince74

This unnecessary restriction was imposed in a forum, a school, where Mr. Frost had a reasonable expectation that he would be allowed to express his reasonable and legitimate allegiance in a reasonable and responsible way when others were being allowed, and indeed encouraged, so to express themselves. This is a classic case of abridging the rights of Free Speech of a minority, which sought only reasonable expression of such rights, while permitting the expression of the majority.

Who said that supporting the Colts is reasonable or responsible?

Anyways refer to my last post for my response. I'm really not trying to get into a big debate over this. If I were in the kids shoes I would've worn a Colts jersey inside a Saints sweatshirt. Then stand on top of my desk and rip the sweatshirt off at the end of the day when I was about to go home anyway.

PATSYLICIOUS · 02-06-2010, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PatsFanSince74

Yes, but the first amendment is precisely about you, me or anyone else not being able to define the limits of reasonable Free Speech and what is "worth taking a stand for." The fact that the circumstances under discussion are "not on [your] list" is, with all respect, irrelevant.

I'm not saying it is relevant to anyone or anything, it's an opinion.

PatsFanSince74 · 02-06-2010, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PATSYLICIOUS

Who said that supporting the Colts is reasonable or responsible?

Anyways refer to my last post for my response. I'm really not trying to get into a big debate over this. If I were in the kids shoes I would've worn a Colts jersey inside a Saints sweatshirt. Then stand on top of my desk and rip the sweatshirt off at the end of the day when I was about to go home anyway.

Fine. Nice end to the debate.

If I were him, since it was "Black and Gold Day, " I would have fashioned an ersatz Colts Jersey out of Black and Gold and worn that.

Good discussion! Now, Go Saints, beat the Dolts!!!