Nfl draft 5th annual trade-a-rama 4 rounds - Page 3 - New England Patriots Forums

BritPat · 03-07-2011, 01:16 PM

After reading my initial comments, I feel I should give more insight into why I think it's bonkers.....

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Originally Posted by DW Toys

#9 NE Patriots via Dallas Cowboys*: Robert Quinn, DE/OLB
*NE Trades G Logan Mankins, S Brandon Merriweather, G/T Nick Kaczur and N.E. pick #17 in the first round and the N.E. 4th round pick for OLB DeMarcus Ware, RB Marion Barber and Dallas #9. I can see the “are you nuts” posters typing as we speak. Dallas has major needs and desperate on the O Line. Kosier’s an FA . They have one starting Safety. And remember Mankins and Merriweather are Pro Bowlers. Kaczur won’t redo and Barber is on his way out of Dallas but is only 27. Fantasy? Maybe . Workable? Yes. See what the Boys do at #17 and it makes more sense. Jerry gets two stars instead of one. This mock is for fun after all. It can work in real life though. Merriweather is a 2012 FA so his value back to the Pats in 2011 was important. Jerry Jones will pay more for Mankins and Merriweather on new contracts and power agent Mr.Bauer cost his client Mankins millions last year so I am sure he will make a deal quick with Dallas.

Let's start with the Draft picks. The only fair tool for comparison is the (admittedly slightly outdated) trade value chart, but use it we shall.

#9 is worth 1350 points, #17 is worth 950 points. That's 400 points difference (not that I'm doubting you can count fella) - and our 4th round pick is worth only 56 points. That's 344 points difference for those not keeping score. That's the equivalent of the #55/#55 pick in the Draft.

Kaczur has no trade value so you might as well put him to the side. Which means that Mankins and Meriweather have to be worth Ware, Barber and a mid second round pick. Ware isn't leaving Dallas without an incredibly stupid offer being put to JJ. And this certainly isn't a stupid offer, not in the way it would need to be anyway.

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#28 New England Patriots: Danny Watkins G

Watkins is not a first round pick, first and foremost. Not with the CBA up in the air, and not at 26 years old. Take Wisniewski instead.

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Originally Posted by DW Toys

Round 2

#33 San Diego via New England Patriots*: Ryan Kerrigan DE/OLB Purdue
*Pats get an upgrade in Safety in FS Eric Weddle. The Pats were 30th in Yards against in pass in 2010. Standing pat with the present suspects is not going to work again for the Patriots. They lose Merriweather, who had the most pure talent, to the ‘Boys, but gain Eric Weddle who is smart and is the DB quarterback that Belichick desires, had 96 tackles and has playmaking ability. He is only 26. The Chargers had a first round tender on Weddle but this works for them here. Weddle and Pat Chung could be the starting pair. Sanders has a CAP price just south of $3m which is too high for a rotation Safety and the Pats just re-upped Page and Barrett. We can see more moves. This could save money for the Patriots.

Counting tackles is a baaaaaaaaaaaaaad idea. He'd be a marginal upgrade at best. Certainly not worth trading the 33rd pick of the draft for.

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#60 New England Patriots: John Baldwin WR This was a case of BPA for the Pats. He should have not been there this late. Pats were looking for more O Line depth. it just worked out. They still need to sign a Vet WR and I see a 5th to the Bengals for WR Chad Ochocinco. Three youngsters like Tate, Edelman, Price and now another in Baldwin, are not NFL seasoned yet. It worked on the TE kids last year, but Price and Tate were not major factors in the passing game. Edelman and Tate were better in ST roles.

After initially being infatuated with Baldwin, I now see what others see. Laziness, average athleticism, inability to beat press coverage, poor route runner. We traded someone not so long ago who bore all those hallmarks. I'd rather take the next guy down.

As for trading a fifth round away for Johnson, who is worth nothing - sorry fella. Not good enough.

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#74 New England via Minnesota : John Moffitt OG

I can see why, but he's simply not a Pats Guard. Not agile enough, not a good enough technician.

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Yep, they need a Safety more. But they get N.E. Safety James Sanders for #119 (approx. pending comps) one of the Eagles two fourth rounders, as N.E. has to ship a fourth to Dallas. Reid likes N.E. DBs.

Why would the Pats trade away someone Belichick clearly rates and has done since he arrived, for little in return? I'm not sure what else Sanders has to do to prove his worth, certainly to the fans.

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#92 New England: James Carpenter OT

A 6'4" 321lb OT? For the Patriots?

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28. New England : Shiloh Keo S

Hang on, you wouldn't need to do this if you hadn't traded away Sanders.

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New England: Greg Romeus DE/OLB

I thought we couldn't get a Compensatory 4th round pick?

I liked the enthusiasm, I liked the determination, but the rest - it's a no from me.

Dufflebagz · 03-07-2011, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DW Toys

Round 2

#33 San Diego via New England Patriots*: Ryan Kerrigan DE/OLB Purdue
*Pats get an upgrade in Safety in FS Eric Weddle. The Pats were 30th in Yards against in pass in 2010. Standing pat with the present suspects is not going to work again for the Patriots. They lose Merriweather, who had the most pure talent, to the ‘Boys, but gain Eric Weddle who is smart and is the DB quarterback that Belichick desires, had 96 tackles and has playmaking ability. He is only 26. The Chargers had a first round tender on Weddle but this works for them here. Weddle and Pat Chung could be the starting pair. Sanders has a CAP price just south of $3m which is too high for a rotation Safety and the Pats just re-upped Page and Barrett. We can see more moves. This could save money for the Patriots.

Is this just #33 for Weddle straight up?

DW Toys · 03-07-2011, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BritPat

After reading my initial comments, I feel I should give more insight into why I think it's bonkers.....

Let's start with the Draft picks. The only fair tool for comparison is the (admittedly slightly outdated) trade value chart, but use it we shall.

#9 is worth 1350 points, #17 is worth 950 points. That's 400 points difference (not that I'm doubting you can count fella) - and our 4th round pick is worth only 56 points. That's 344 points difference for those not keeping score. That's the equivalent of the #55/#55 pick in the Draft.

Kaczur has no trade value so you might as well put him to the side. Which means that Mankins and Meriweather have to be worth Ware, Barber and a mid second round pick. Ware isn't leaving Dallas without an incredibly stupid offer being put to JJ. And this certainly isn't a stupid offer, not in the way it would need to be anyway.

Watkins is not a first round pick, first and foremost. Not with the CBA up in the air, and not at 26 years old. Take Wisniewski instead.

Counting tackles is a baaaaaaaaaaaaaad idea. He'd be a marginal upgrade at best. Certainly not worth trading the 33rd pick of the draft for.

After initially being infatuated with Baldwin, I now see what others see. Laziness, average athleticism, inability to beat press coverage, poor route runner. We traded someone not so long ago who bore all those hallmarks. I'd rather take the next guy down.

As for trading a fifth round away for Johnson, who is worth nothing - sorry fella. Not good enough.

I can see why, but he's simply not a Pats Guard. Not agile enough, not a good enough technician.

Why would the Pats trade away someone Belichick clearly rates and has done since he arrived, for little in return? I'm not sure what else Sanders has to do to prove his worth, certainly to the fans.

A 6'4" 321lb OT? For the Patriots?

Hang on, you wouldn't need to do this if you hadn't traded away Sanders.

I thought we couldn't get a Compensatory 4th round pick?

I liked the enthusiasm, I liked the determination, but the rest - it's a no from me.

Well thank you for your comments. I complete disagree and question some of your reasoning but that being said this is for fun. Weddle has a first round tender (not a higher first and third). We all know my disdain for Sanders' game so I won't go there, but if you can upgrade , and Weddle certainly is, you can go for him. Let's use logic.

If not. Fine keep Sanders, but you have the same problem. A rotation Safety is NOT worth approx. $3m a year. You can't convince me. You have to consider money and next year Merriweather is costly. Weddle costs less than Merriweather and Sanders together and can do the same job as these two and can be paired with Chung. If you consider dollars going into next year (and I am sure Sanders will want a raise), Weddle is a cheaper option than paying both, better than Sanders as a player and let's call Merriweather a wash unless we throw smart into the equation.

As far as Watkins, he is rated higher by many over Wisniewski (How successful have Penn Sate players been in the NFL lately? Name five Penn State NFL starters). See what Mayock thinks. Right now Watkins is second behind Pouncey. I look for Moffitt as a Center. Again Mayock rates him top five.

Baldwin was just there when I did my Mock. I disagree that he will not make a great NFL WR. My binkerino? Certainly not.

I appreciate your preferred players and respect your choices. None of them are bad.
DW Toys

A.C Vegas · 03-07-2011, 02:14 PM

It's a nice Idea but that's way too many player swapping around that almost never happens in bulk like that.

DW Toys · 03-07-2011, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dufflebagz

Is this just #33 for Weddle straight up?

He only has a first round tender. Can't see SD passing #33.
DW Toys

JackBauer · 03-07-2011, 04:14 PM

So basically this entire exercise was intended, in rather outlandish and improbable fashion, to craft scenarios whereby the Patriots would get rid of players that DWToys doesn't like.

It's nothing if wholly predictable.

***patchick*** · 03-07-2011, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JackBauer

So basically this entire exercise was intended, in rather outlandish and improbable fashion, to craft scenarios whereby the Patriots would get rid of players that DWToys doesn't like.

Actually, it's a little more complicated than that. Every year he proposes trading away the draft for veterans, because he considers them more proven & ready than draft picks...except for the Patriots' own veterans, who are dispensable. Good fun.

***patchick*** · 03-07-2011, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BritPat

After reading my initial comments, I feel I should give more insight into why I think it's bonkers.....

Don't forget $$! Jones gave Ware a $20 million signing bonus 2 years ago. He'll have paid $34 million for just 2 years of Ware's services, then flipped him for the opportunity to hand Mankins a huge bonus of his own. Lucky Jerry! Meanwhile the Patriots will reap the benefits of Ware's long-term deal, paying him just $15 million over the next 3 years.

DW Toys · 03-07-2011, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patchick

Actually, it's a little more complicated than that. Every year he proposes trading away the draft for veterans, because he considers them more proven & ready than draft picks...except for the Patriots' own veterans, who are dispensable. Good fun.

Yes, Thank you. I consider each day a blessing and three years from now who knows if we will still be competitive.So I would rather take my best shot in 2012 and worry about 2014 later when these rookies are ready. Just a mix please.Not too heavy one way or the other.
We had a good Draft but we also picked up Woodhead, Branch, Warren, Crump, Moore and Page who played some by FA or trade.

I did like 2007 over this last year so I guess the player adds in 2007 made it more interesting to me. We have had way too many bad Drafts in the last 10 years to make up for last year.

And I thank you for acknowledging fun.

I have my favorites and then I have reasons some of the others are not my cup of tea. I like Mankins and Merriweather both. I just see the value of a strategic Trade to another Teams whose needs are defined by what we possibly have to offer and vice versa.

I would like to see Merriweather and especially Mankins here for years. It looks like a standoff with Kaczur and the other way Barber is not for long in Dallas.

I got this negative stuff when I suggested another WR a year before he got here but I did get more of ....he is finished..... as well.

I am adamant about the fact that Weddle will cost us less than keeping Merriweather and Sanders in the long run, so that is fact.
Now consider an upgrade over one guy and a wash the other but you are paying only one guy with Weddle. No way Merriweather is cheaper than Weddle this year when BM puts his terms down next season.

I can't see a top flight ready to go starting Safety in this Draft class. And our weakest part of our defense was passing yards against and up the middle. I can't see why everyone on the board is so content with that? The pass rush should improve and help but there is still a major drop off.

Again thank you for your comments.
DW Toys

billdog3484 · 03-07-2011, 05:43 PM

dumbest thing ive ever seen.

Ware to Patriots AND we get the 9th pick.

Had to tune out after that. cant follow something i know is this nuts