ctpatsfan77

A great article from Scout.com, which goes into his mindset and motivation.

It also shows that Barwin's parents are no dummies.

Hmmm. . . . I wonder who he might be talking about?

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And a quick note from Michael Abromowitz at The Football Expert:

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mayoclinic

Nice read. It highlights a lot of reasons Barwin is special - athleticism, versatility, personality, etc.

There's no doubt in my mind that Barwin is just as special this year as Mayo was last year. He's a "perfect storm" at OLB for the Pats in terms of his size, physical ability, versatility, skills and intangibles. The whole package. I think he's a top 10 talent, and with another year on defense he would have been a consensus top 10 pick. People who still think he's a 2nd round prospect are living in the past - he's no more a 2nd round pick at this point than Mayo was this time last year. We will be lucky if we lasts to 23, and shouldn't hesitate if he does.

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"OVER Loading at ANY position can create a Fatal Advantage. THAT is what interests ME. Attacking With Concentrated Force. THAT is what WINS. In the words ~ more or less ~ of General Patton: 'I'm fighting a WAR, here. Let the B*****ES worry about their FLANKS.' " - Off the Grid

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TriplecHamp

Im starting to think that Barwin will be ok at #23 but I still think he is a one trick pony when it comes to pass rushing. I also think he got by on pure Athleticism in a weaker confrence can you convince me otherwise?

mayoclinic

I'm not quite sure what you mean by "one trick pony". I think that English is more one-dimensional than Barwin in that he is more of a pure pass rusher, whereas Barwin has better ball awareness and ability to play in space. Barwin defended 8 passes last year and blocked 3 kicks. So I think he is able to make impact plays without involving a sack or a TFL. If, however, you are referring to his pass-rushing repertoire, then I would agree that Barwin is a bit one-dimensional right now and lacks a mature repertoire of moves compared to someone like English or Everette Brown. I think that Maybin and Orapko are both a bit more "one trick ponies" than Brown or English (Maybin mostly being a speed guy, and Orapko a bull rusher), but both are more refined than Barwin. But as someone who is a later comer to defense and who seems to be a very quick study, I think that can be overcome. Jays52 has suggested - and I agree - that that might even be an asset when changing positions to OLB, since he will be less ingrained in a 3 point stance and set of pass rushing moves that worked well at DE. But I can't argue that he is raw in terms of his pass rushing technique.

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"OVER Loading at ANY position can create a Fatal Advantage. THAT is what interests ME. Attacking With Concentrated Force. THAT is what WINS. In the words ~ more or less ~ of General Patton: 'I'm fighting a WAR, here. Let the B*****ES worry about their FLANKS.' " - Off the Grid

"The key to any successful organization is to anticipate things, not react to them." - Michael Lombardi

TriplecHamp

Yeah I was talking about his pass rushing repetoir. IDK i just dont know if he will be able to use his that athletisism against NFL tackles. Say we did draft him, how long untill he starts? At the very least how long until he actually makes an impact? Alot of people say he can be a vrabel clone but I dont want a clone I want an upgrade. Over time (2-3) do you honestly think he will be a top 3-4 OLB?

bucky

There's no question that he WON'T be able to get by on his athleticism. Just like I'm quite sure he won't be blocking 3 kicks in 1 year in the NFL.

It's very easy for people to make this type of Vrabel-like comparison. Vrabel was a third round pick and didn't start in the NFL until his 4th or 5th year. Barwin is actually more athletic and possibly could start in a year or 2. That said, there were probably a half dozen "Vrabel clones" on the past several years who have yet to do a thing in the NFL. Who's to say that Barwin isn't more like Jason Babin or Chris Gocong?

mayoclinic

When did I mention Vrabel? I think Barwin is much more athletic than Vrabel, and has much greater upside. Vrabel was a 3rd round DE who worked himself into a fine OLB and better overall player. Barwin has all-pro potential. Of course he may not realize it and may be more of a Gocong type player (which isn't terribly bad in my opinion), but I think he's worth the shot at #23. The only way I think Barwin particularly resembles Vrabel at all is that they both seem to have some positional versatility (and also they look a bit alike).

I'm tired of all of the Vrabel comparisons. Clay Matthews gets compared to Vrabel all the time, and he doesn't really remotedly resemble Vrabel in style. Mel Kiper compared Bobby Carpenter to Vrabel in 2006. Every white OLB over 240# who might fit into a 3-4 scheme gets compared to Mike Vrabel whether they have any similarity or not. Enough already.

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"OVER Loading at ANY position can create a Fatal Advantage. THAT is what interests ME. Attacking With Concentrated Force. THAT is what WINS. In the words ~ more or less ~ of General Patton: 'I'm fighting a WAR, here. Let the B*****ES worry about their FLANKS.' " - Off the Grid

"The key to any successful organization is to anticipate things, not react to them." - Michael Lombardi

Box_O_Rocks

What's wrong with Gocong? Good grief, the kid is the starting Sam for Jim Johnson's pressure defense, not bad for a QB converted to DE converted to 4-3 OLB.

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mayoclinic

I've called Barwin my favorite 3-4 OLB prospect since 2005. That led me to reflect a bit on past years. In particular, I've been thinking a bit about last year's draft, when people were debating between Chris Long, Vernon Gholston and Quentin Groves as 3-4 OLB prospects.

I never thought Gholston would be a good 3-4 OLB. He seemed too muscled and bulky, without the agility or mental makeup to read and react and play in space. I thought Chris Long would actually make a nice 3-4 OLB (and still think he could), though he is a bit heavy for that position. His 7.04 3-cone was quite decent, and he obviously had a great motor and intangibles. I didn't think he was a realistic option, though, because he was probably going to go top 5 and the cost of a conversion project that high in the draft seemed prohibitive.

Of the 3, Groves seemed the most natural fit, and was the most likely to be available at a point in the draft where a DE/OLB conversion would not breakl the bank. While #10 was always too high for Groves, if we had been allowed to keep our #31 pick I think a lot of people would have been salivating over him as a 3-4 OLB prospect. At 6'3" 259# he had great size. He had 4.53 speed, and was an excellent pass rusher. He had some experience at OLB as well as at DE in college. He compiled impressive stats at a top SEC program.

But he also had a lot of issues. His 3-cone time of 7.31 was much slower than you would like (considerably slower than Long's 7.04, despite Long running a 4.75 40 compared with Groves' 4.53), and suggested that his speed might be more linear, without the necessary agility to play well in space. He didn't fare particularly well when he played 3-4 OLB at Auburn. He was week against the run He had some off-field issues. And he had questions about his motor and work habits. NFLdraftcountdown negatives on their profile of Groves included: "Extremely inconsistent and lacks a great motor...Undersized and doesn't have the ideal bulk that you look for..Isn't stout at the point...Marginal instincts, awareness and recognition...Limited pass rush repertoire...Too aggressive at times...Slow off the line...Has trouble shedding blocks...Poor technique..A questionable work ethic." Better Know a Draft Prospect: Defensive End QuentinGroves - Big Cat Country

A lot of people, including many on this board, openly lusted for Groves and were very upset when he fell to #52 and we didn't move up to get him. I was never a Groves fan, mainly because of his poor 3-cone and his character issues.

What I like so much about Barwin is that he has the size AND the speed AND the agility AND the background playing in space AND the versatility AND the motor AND the intelligence AND the character. No one else has all of those. Not Long, Gholston, or Groves. Not Matthews, English, Sintim, Maybin, Ayers, Brown, Orapko, Cushing, or Michael Johnson. Not Manny Lawson, Chad Greenway or Bobby Carpenter in 2006. The only strike I can see against him is that he is raw. And he is, as far as DE pass-rushing technique goes. But he's been a very quick learner, and my guess is that he will make rapid progress under Pepper's tutelage if the Pats get him. Worst case that I see is that he becomes a Gocong, which, as BOR notes, is not exactly the end of the world.

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"OVER Loading at ANY position can create a Fatal Advantage. THAT is what interests ME. Attacking With Concentrated Force. THAT is what WINS. In the words ~ more or less ~ of General Patton: 'I'm fighting a WAR, here. Let the B*****ES worry about their FLANKS.' " - Off the Grid

"The key to any successful organization is to anticipate things, not react to them." - Michael Lombardi

bucky

Nothing is wrong with Gocong specifically. It's just that he'd not Vrabel. And I'm pointing out the stupidity of comparing Barwin to Vrabel. Which, I admit, isn't something that anyone on this board started.