patchick

Hey, anybody know who looks good at OLB this year?

Let's take a little break. We haven't had a DE discussion since the combine, and the likes of Tyson Jackson and Jarron Gilbert are beginning their inevitable climb up the mocks as the draft approaches.

One tidbit I just noticed on Gilbert is that he has incredible 36' 3/4" arms, which on a 6'5+ frame would make for quite a presence in the passing lanes. (It also makes his 28 bench reps look pretty darned good.) His athleticism, explosion and knack for getting into the backfield are well documented. Meanwhile, a few different draft sites make vague references to "maturity" issues, without any specifics whatsoever. Anybody have a clue what that's about? He was a team captain, fwiw.

bakes781

How about Fili Moala? 6-4, 303 Played DT for USC. He must have been doing something right to make all those USC LBs look good! Excels at stopping the run.

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BelichickFan

Fili Moala is another one who could have the size and mobility to be a DE for us. I actually think there's a better chance we take someone like this than the more popular OLB at #23.

BelichickFan

Damn you

mayoclinic

Come on, let's just keep discussing Beatty and Barwin.

First of all, I just don't see the same pressing need at DE as some people do. We have Seymour, Warren, Wright, Green and LeKevin Smith, same as last year. Not a lot of playing time for a rookie to contribute. I understand that Seymour, Green and Smith are in their contract years. But I think we should be able to extend Wilfork leaving us free to franchise Seymour if necessary for 2010, assuming we can't extend him, and draft a replacement next year when there is a much stronger 3-4 DE class.

If we were totally in love with a 3-4 DE prospect then I could understand the logic of drafting one early. Believe me, if Ndamukong Suh from Nebraska had declared then I would be all for taking him at #23, as I believe he would be an incredible 3-4 DE for us. But what we are left with is the following:

- Tyson Jackson - 6'4"+, 295", experienced 3-4 DE starter for LSU. Inconsistent and sometimes lazy. I doubt he will last to 23, but I really don't like him all that much.
- Jarron Gilbert - a physical freak, but one whose productivity hasn't matched up. To me, he's a much bigger reach at 23-34 than Connor Barwin would be (sorry, obligatory Barwin inclusion; now back to the post). He's a 3rd round pick whose physical traits should push him into the 2nd round, who is being given 1st round consideration because of the lack of other prospects and because he can jump out of a swimming pool. I want him on my water polo team, but not necessarily at 3-4 DE. Certainly not earlier than #47.
- A bunch of 4-3 UT's who could conceivable play 3-4 DE but aren't really suited to it: Peria Jerry, Evander Hood, etc.

The 2010 draft will have a much more talented crop of potential 3-4 DEs: Gerald McCoy (top 10), Marvin Austin (probably top 20), Ndamukong Suh (probably top 20), Arthur Davis (1-2), Vince Oghobasse (1-2), among others. One or more could slip given all of the wealth, or at least be within trade-up range. Suh is my clear favorite at this point - probably out of reach, though things may change. Davis and Oghobasse are excellent options who are likely quite possible for us on the first day.

If the FO thinks Gilbert can be a pro-bowl 3-4 DE then I'm all for him at 47 or 58. But he seems pretty much like an unproven physical specimen. His play has been inconsistent, and hasn't lived up to his athletic ability. He seems much more like a workout warrior to me than B**w*n (oops, I almost did it again).

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"OVER Loading at ANY position can create a Fatal Advantage. THAT is what interests ME. Attacking With Concentrated Force. THAT is what WINS. In the words ~ more or less ~ of General Patton: 'I'm fighting a WAR, here. Let the B*****ES worry about their FLANKS.' " - Off the Grid

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mayoclinic

Forgot to include Moala in my list. He's another who has tons of physical ability and hasn't played up to it. I would be fine with him if he fell to the 3rd round. Possibly at 58 if the FO really liked him. But he's very inconsistent.

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"OVER Loading at ANY position can create a Fatal Advantage. THAT is what interests ME. Attacking With Concentrated Force. THAT is what WINS. In the words ~ more or less ~ of General Patton: 'I'm fighting a WAR, here. Let the B*****ES worry about their FLANKS.' " - Off the Grid

"The key to any successful organization is to anticipate things, not react to them." - Michael Lombardi

bakes781

Hey great minds Another tidbit: he's the cousin of Haloti Ngata.

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dryheat44

Does Arthur Davis = Arthur Jones? If not, add Arthur Jones to your list also.

The love Gilbert gets on this board puzzles me as much as Ayers. I wouldn't touch him day one...or early on day two, for that matter.

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When it's third and 10, you can have the milk drinkers and I'll take the whiskey drinkers every time. -- R.I.P. Max McGee

mgteich

1) I don't expect Green to be extended AND Seymour to be extended AND Smith to be re-signed at $1.6M or so (as would be required to keep him). So my conclusion is that we will need one or two defensive ends for the 2010 season.

2) Front seven players in our 2-gap 3-4 defense sometimes need time to develop, especially players who aren't stud game-ready top 10 picks.

3) We can wait, but it is possible to draft at DE in both 2009 and 2010 if necessary. If we choose to let Green walk and Seymour is an issue (he might sit out in camp as a franchisee), then we will need a DE starter for 2010 with draft picks that start at 32, and that would mean starting a rookie.

4) Also, we might have other needs for the franchise tag than Seymour, especially if we have a new CBA (e.g., Gostkowksi).

BOTTOM LINE
If we can, let's draft the replacement for Green or Seymour now, expecting to keep one in 2010. And just BTW, if he is good enough, and belichick thinks enough of Smith, Green could be in trouble this year. We could be keeping two of the draftee, Green and Smith.

mayoclinic

If we draft a rookie 3-4 DE in 2010 then we don't need Seymour, Green and Smith to all be extended (or possibly franchised, for Seymour), just 2 out of 3 to go along with Warren and Wright. I'd rather see us draft a true NT backup for Wilfork than reach for a DE when I don't see any really terrific prospects.

In other words:

- Keep Seymour, Warren, Green and Wright for 2009, with Smith also able to play some DE. Draft a rookie NT to backup Wilfork.
- 2010: Franchise or resign Seymour and if feasible resign one of Green/Smith, along with a day 1 rookie DE. Seymour, Warren, Wright, and rookie would be fine. Add in one of Green/Smith and we would be in great shape for 2010, with a day 1 rookie possibly being able to move into a starting role in 2011 if we couldn't resign Seymour long term.

Again, I would be fine going DE if there was a standout prospect, but I just can't get worked up about any of these guys, except for Gilbert who is all promise.

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"OVER Loading at ANY position can create a Fatal Advantage. THAT is what interests ME. Attacking With Concentrated Force. THAT is what WINS. In the words ~ more or less ~ of General Patton: 'I'm fighting a WAR, here. Let the B*****ES worry about their FLANKS.' " - Off the Grid

"The key to any successful organization is to anticipate things, not react to them." - Michael Lombardi