PATSNUTme

Over the years, I have paid less and less attention to the Combine performances of the players.

It seems that now there is so much scouting going on and so much prep going into the Combine by players that it doesn't seem to mean as much as it used to.

Agree? Disagree?

Richter

I dunno, I put a lot of stock into a few parts of it, and not much in others. The interview process weeds out headcases a lot of the time, so I listen to reports there. I pay attention to triangle numbers for certain positions, because they're a good indicator of whether a guy has sufficient physical tools to excel or not, usually a lack of size relative to their speed. Most of all, I look for things that are way out of whack, like a huge guy that can't do many reps of 225. Rather than being blown away because some guy ran a 4.35 instead of a 4.4, I'll be curious if a guy runs a 4.3 but totally flubs his three cone or 20 shuttle. Also the flexibility tests are good to keep an eye on, since the only time you hear anything about them is when someone has a joint that doesn't range properly, which is the sign of a serious, limiting injury in the past. It's just a meat market, so you have to treat it that way. Some things are going to slip through the cracks, and past performance isn't taken into account in evaluations.

farn

Spot on. I think BB puts way more value on game tape and then he weeds out the weirdos by interviewing them. Truth is : I think the Pats weirdo factor is quite low compared to many other franchises.

TheKraftyOne

A lot of that stuff can create a workout warrior that can't really play. See Gholston. Great measurables but one game tape is enough to show he doesn't make adjustments well in space or have any pass rushing moves other than straight. Couldn't be on a better team IMO.

Box_O_Rocks

The measurables are useful for cutting through the college disinformation on a player's height, weight, and 40 time. The greatest value the combine offers is the drills - those few glimpses we get whenever they cut away from Rich Eison. We can see the DBs in their backpedal and turns, we often get our first look at DEs projected to play OLB doing LB drills, the gauntlet drill for receivers, the cut drills for RBs, the mirror drill for OL, all are useful for judging a player's athleticism and for the DE to OLB conversion it's a good time to see how fluid they are on their feet.

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Richter

Again (and this is a consolidation of my earlier post), the biggest problem I think is with using the combine to figure out if freak athletes can play, rather than figuring out if the producers in college can't. The combine just isn't going to tell you if a guy can play on the NFL, but if you know what to look for, it can definitely tell you who can't play on Sundays. Gholston was a guy in that first category, where people looked at his combine numbers and said "how can this guy not succeed?", when his time at OSU showed pretty clearly that he was a big risk, especially if he was going to be asked to play on his feet.

PATSNUTme

I think the interviews have become the most important. But we don't really know what goes on unless it's leaked by someone.

Richter

Thankfully, like steroids in baseball and marijuana in basketball, player evaluation stuff always seems to leak out in the NFL.

TealSox

For me, the Combine gives me legitimate 40 times, high jump, height, weight, etc. Right now, there are so many numbers out there that, you don't know where to start in assessing a player. On top of that, I think the GMs and Scouts get a ton out of it and, while we don't see it reported as directly, it is reflected in the mock drafts done after the Combine.

Now Pro Days are a different story... unless you are looking for a sleeper and want to know what team is looking at what players at which schools.

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Mark Morse

Your analysis is dead on. The combine is just another piece of information. Add the players performance on the field during their carer and the interviews you have the basics. Background checks are also an important part too!

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