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Have you heard of a guy named Michael Haynes from Penn State?, speaking of pass rushing DE's. This guy was the 14th overall pick by the Bears in 2003, a complete, and I mean a complete bust. Kennedy (#12) and Courtney Brown(#1) were, high, high expensive draft picks that completely busted out. Arrington as you know was (#2 overall), I mean #2, are you kidding me? for the kind of production you got out of that guy, that is brutal from the investment made in the #2 overall pick, you need much more than that. Penn State is a very, very risky school to look at. Blair Thomas, Kijana Carter, Curtis Enis, DJ Dozier, Kenny Jackson(#4 overall) I mean it's endless. They have to lead the lead in high end R1 busts.
OSU is the safest Big 10 school, always has been, they are a football factory up in Columbus.
Micahel Haynes was a huge reach, no one NO ONE, from Penn State imagined he'd go that high. Arrington definitely deserved to be #2. I would have picked him #1. He played like the second best player in the draft as well for a couple years. They've been hit by the injury bug. Ki-Jana Carter, Enis, Blair Thomas, same thing. All these players blew out their knees early on.
Meanwhile, you left off the backs that played and did well. For every DJ Dozier that busted, you have a Larry Johnson, Curt Warner, Franco Harris, Lydell Mitchell, Gary Brown, Richie Anderson, John Cappelletti, or heck contributors like Leroy Thompson, Sam Gash, Matt Suhey, Michael Robinson. Here's a little known fact: Penn State RBs have gained more yards in the NFL than any other school's RBs. WRs is a similar story, Kenny Jackson was a big bust, but Bobby Engram is still playing. A lot of teams stayed away from Larry Johnson because of the three guys before him with the ACL injuries. It was a mistake.
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It's not so hard at all to put together such a list from Penn State either.
But before I do, here are some facts about PSU that go against the grain when it comes to their move to the Big Ten:
1. PSU has never had dominant stretches, going back through the entire Paterno era. They have always cycled by having great years followed by mediocre or bad years. The four year stretch in the early 2000s lasted longer than the previous bad stretches, but take a look at Paterno's record in the late 1980s. Not good. And that was coming off 2 championships in 4 years.
2. PSU has had the best record of all Big Ten teams since joining the conference in 1993.
3. PSU's record since joining the Big Ten is exactly the same within 2 games as it was in the 15 years prior to joining when PSU played mainly teams from the northeast. This would argue against the idea that competition is tougher in the Big Ten. Remember, during the last 15 years, both Ohio State and Michigan have gone through bad stretches.
4. If you look at the rankings on Scout and Rivals, you'll see that Paterno has pulled some tremendous talent from out of state, they have had highly ranked classes there, and they have expanded their footprint into the South Atlantic and Midwest (at the expense of New Jersey, mainly). Now, that doesn't mean Paterno hasn't squandered the talent. I believe his bad coaching has set kids back. Justin King and Derrick Williams arrived at PSU with boatloads of talent. They leave it not looking so good. During one of those losing years in the early 2000s, PSU had 6 players taken in the first round and a half (now, I don't know what the scouts were watching, but Jimmy Kennedy was not very good at PSU, Anthony Adams totally anchored that defensive line.
Now onto the PSU NFL successful guys for the last 15 years, 7 Pro Bowlers, a couple guys who came very close in Herring and Engram, and a bunch of solid starters in Pozlusny, Alford, Levi Brown, Hali, Scott, McKenzie, Jurevicius, Drayton, etc. Did they have a lot of busts like Kennedy, Enis, Haynes etc. in that time too? Yes, but they had much more success than busts.:
2008 (too early to judge)
3rd Dan Connor Panthers LB
4th Justin King Rams CB
1st Levi Brown Cardinals OL (good pick)
2nd Paul Posluszny Bills LB (good pick, he's their captain on D)
3rd Jay Alford Giants DT (good pick)
1st Tamba Hali Chiefs DE (good pick)
4th Michael Robinson 49ers WR (good pick)
7th Ethan Kilmer Bengals WR (good pick)
7th Sean McHugh Titans FB (good pick)
1st Larry Johnson Chiefs RB (good pick)
2nd Bryan Scott Falcons DB (good pick)
3rd Kareem McKenzie Jets T (good pick)
1st LaVar Arrington Redskins LB
2nd Joe Jurevicius Giants WR (good pick)
2nd Kim Herring Ravens DB (good pick)
1st Jeff Hartings Lions G (good)
2nd Bobby Engram Bears WR (good)
3rd Terry Killens Oilers LB (good)
3rd Jon Witman Steelers RB (ok)
6th Marco Rivera Packers G (good)
1st Kerry Collins Panthers QB (mediocre at best)
1st Kyle Brady Jets TE (ok)
1993 1st O.J. McDuffie Dolphins WR (mediocre for 1st)
2nd Troy Drayton Rams TE (good)
2nd Todd Rucci Patriots T (ok)
6th Richie Anderson Jets RB
Back to the non-PSU talk... it's so difficult to predict BB's draft moves. From Seymour - a move mocked by some - to Merriweather, Mankins, Watson... and of course Mayo.
Not too many people would've won bets on picking those guys. I remember people questionning the Mankins choice, but he did pan out. And Mayo was not the LB of choice for the Pats on the wonderful mock draft sites.
"upstater1; It's not so hard at all to put together such a list from Penn State either."
upstater1, I love the fact that you're definately bleeding blue and white. Listen, I love your enthusiam for PSU, I really do, but look, here's the true and actual list of all PSU (1st and 2nd round picks) since 1992.
Now be honest, look at this list. These are the 1st and 2nd round picks PSU has put into this league over the last 16 years:
34. Green Bay - Mark D'Onofrio, ILB Penn State
46. Phoenix - Tony Sacca, QB Penn State
25. Miami - O.J. McDuffie, WR Penn State (DECENT AT BEST)
39. L.A. Rams - Troy Drayton, TE Penn State
51. New England - Todd Rucci, G Penn State (SOLID)
1. Cincinnati - Ki-Jana Carter, RB Penn State
5. Carolina - Kerry Collins, QB Penn State (DECENT, BUT #5 OVERALL ?)
9. N.Y. Jets - Kyle Brady, TE Penn State
23. Detroit - Jeff Hartings, C Penn State (SOLID)
30. Washington - Andre Johnson, T Penn State
52. Chicago - Bobby Engram, WR Penn State (SOLID)
58. Baltimore - Kim Herring, FS Penn State
5. Chicago - Curtis Enis, RB Penn State
55. N.Y. Giants - Joe Jurevicius, WR Penn State (DECENT)
1 overall - Cleveland Browns - Courtney Brown, DE Penn State
2 overall - Washington Redskins - LaVar Arrington, LB Penn State (SOLID if picked lower in this round)
12 St. Louis Jimmy Kennedy DT Penn State
14 Chicago Michale Haynes DE Penn State
17 Arizona Bryant Johnson WR Penn State (HALF DECENT BUT NOT AT #17 OVERALL)
27 Kansas City Larry Johnson RB Penn State (TREMENDOUS AT THIS POINT IN THE ROUND)
54 Arizona Anquan Boldin WR Florida State
55 Atlanta Bryan Scott SS Penn State ( Look at who bookended this guy ? ) 56 N.Y. Giants Osi Umenyiora DE Troy State
57 San Francisco Anthony Adams DT Penn State
20. Kansas City - Tamba Hali, DE Penn State (SOLID)
5. Arizona - Levi Brown, OT Penn State (SOLID)
34. Buffalo (from Detroit) - Paul Posluszny, LB Penn State (Decent to SOLID - Still a tad early)
I will say this, the last 3 1/2 rounders look good, but overall, this is not a group of 1 and 2's to be doing cartwheels over. But again, all in good fun, I do love your enthusiasm for the Lions. I just believe that PSU really hasn't put high end talent into this league especially when you take into account the tradition of the school itself, one would expect more.
An unknown from small, obsure Liberty College in SC he arrived, the Greatest TE of his era and my All Time Favorite Patriot he left.
Last edited by The_Riddler; 02-02-2009 at 10:06 PM..
Larry English would seem to fit the bill but Belichick has never taken a small school guy in the first round before.
Yeah I'd consider either Maybin or English if the Pats are going the draft route to acquire an OLB. Then again they might got the FA route. Dansby and Suggs are both impressive and still in their prime.
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