The significance of Brian Daboll hiring - Page 3 - New England Patriots Forums

manxman2601 · 01-14-2013, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaBruinz

How can you say it doesn't bode all that well for Welker considering that only Lloyd is under contract beyond this season? Identifying WRs and developing them means they are (more than likely) 2 years away from being fully productive. Meaning that getting others in here that can get on track with Brady is a necessity this off-season, yet again. Even if Edelman and Welker are re-signed, by 2015, Lloyd and Welker will be at 34 and the Pats will be needing youth in the WR corps.. Guys who can take the load off Lloyd and Welker.

Because if they're going to the expense of signing a presumably fairly expensive coach, they're expecting to invest some serious capital. If Welker and Lloyd are onboard for another two years or so, investing high draft capital for future replacements that will barely see the field doesn't make a whole lot of sense. If you read the draft forum enough, you'll know I'm one of the biggest advocates of drafting WR's in this draft but even I wouldn't really contemplate drafting one in the 1st to 3rd round and have them see limited action for two years.

unoriginal · 01-14-2013, 11:23 PM

I believe elsewhere it has been noted the Pats have one of the smallest coaching staffs in the league, primarily due to their own talent being poached around the league year after year. This move is probably less about targeting a certain coaching need then just hiring coaching talent when it becomes available again. Like the players, many of these guys can coach and have coached multiple positions.

As for Saban, in addition to what others have mentioned, there's that story that he once asked his AD at Alabama if he felt he had the best coach in college football. The AD said, yes, I feel I do. Saban told him he was wrong, but that he did have the best recruiter in college football.

Now, a lot of the reason Nick Saban is a great recruiter is because he can truthfully say "I learned how to coach in the NFL and I run a pro-style offense and a pro-style defense and I run my program like an NFL program, so if you are looking to play in the NFL one day you should come play football at Alabama." But it also illustrates that he now feels he's a far better fit for the college game then the NFL.

AzPatsFan · 01-14-2013, 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unoriginal

I believe elsewhere it has been noted the Pats have one of the smallest coaching staffs in the league, primarily due to their own talent being poached around the league year after year. This move is probably less about targeting a certain coaching need then just hiring coaching talent when it becomes available again. Like the players, many of these guys can coach and have coached multiple positions.

As for Saban, in addition to what others have mentioned, there's that story that he once asked his AD at Alabama if he felt he had the best coach in college football. The AD said, yes, I feel I do. Saban told him he was wrong, but that he did have the best recruiter in college football.

Now, a lot of the reason Nick Saban is a great recruiter is because he can truthfully say "I learned how to coach in the NFL and I run a pro-style offense and a pro-style defense and I run my program like an NFL program, so if you are looking to play in the NFL one day you should come play football at Alabama." But it also illustrates that he now feels he's a far better fit for the college game then the NFL.

What an honest, and self aware valuation.

College Recruiting is like the NFL talent evaluation, and the NFL Draft. Success largely depends on choosing the best talent to decide to recruit, either from the High Schools; or from amongst the FAs and or Draft.

Metaphors · 01-15-2013, 12:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unoriginal

I believe elsewhere it has been noted the Pats have one of the smallest coaching staffs in the league,

If the Pats win this Sunday, there will be time to put together an innovative gameplan, install it and practice it before the SB. That means there is a lot of stuff to do that you don't have time to accomplish in a typical game week. Daboll is a familiar face and a trusted brain that can be used during this time. Get him on-board this week so he is ready to go Monday morning.

***DaBruinz*** · 01-15-2013, 01:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by manxman2601

Because if they're going to the expense of signing a presumably fairly expensive coach, they're expecting to invest some serious capital. If Welker and Lloyd are onboard for another two years or so, investing high draft capital for future replacements that will barely see the field doesn't make a whole lot of sense. If you read the draft forum enough, you'll know I'm one of the biggest advocates of drafting WR's in this draft but even I wouldn't really contemplate drafting one in the 1st to 3rd round and have them see limited action for two years.

So, you make the assumption that Daboll is a fairly expensive coach and then make all sorts of other wrong assumptions to go with that. BTW, David Givens was a 7th round pick. Ebert was a 7th round pick. The Pats could use a pick outside the 1st two rounds on a player (so NOT high draft capital) with the idea of them developing over the next 2 years.

I'll be honest. I couldn't care less what you claim to advocate. You made huge assumptions that make no sense what so ever.

manxman2601 · 01-15-2013, 01:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaBruinz

So, you make the assumption that Daboll is a fairly expensive coach and then make all sorts of other wrong assumptions to go with that. BTW, David Givens was a 7th round pick. Ebert was a 7th round pick. The Pats could use a pick outside the 1st two rounds on a player (so NOT high draft capital) with the idea of them developing over the next 2 years.

I'll be honest. I couldn't care less what you claim to advocate. You made huge assumptions that make no sense what so ever.

Fine. If you couldn't care less, why bother to respond?

Fencer · 01-15-2013, 01:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metaphors

If the Pats win this Sunday, there will be time to put together an innovative gameplan, install it and practice it before the SB. That means there is a lot of stuff to do that you don't have time to accomplish in a typical game week. Daboll is a familiar face and a trusted brain that can be used during this time. Get him on-board this week so he is ready to go Monday morning.

Good point. I'd go further and say that Daboli's jobs THIS week will likely be, in declining order of time expenditure:

1. Prepare for the Super Bowl.
2. Self-scout.
3. Help plan and coach for the Ravens game.

***DaBruinz*** · 01-15-2013, 01:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by manxman2601

Fine. If you couldn't care less, why bother to respond?

Manx - I said I could care less about what you Advocated. NOT about the post in general. You seriously need to loosen up those anal muscles some or maybe we should just start calling you "Ed Rooney" instead..

manxman2601 · 01-15-2013, 01:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaBruinz

Manx - I said I could care less about what you Advocated. NOT about the post in general. You seriously need to loosen up those anal muscles some or maybe we should just start calling you "Ed Rooney" instead..

1. anal muscles are fine but thanks for the concern.

2. Have no idea who Ed Rooney is.

3. Who's "we"

4. Off back to the Draft board, none of the aggravation.

5. Look forward to seeing you there nearer draft time.

***MoLewisrocks*** · 01-15-2013, 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaBruinz

Sorry Mo. Can't agree with the claim that Daboll failed as an OC. No one would have succeeded as an OC in Cleveland with the garbage that was there. In Miami, they actually improved under Daboll's tutelage. It wasn't Daboll's fault that Sparano was a horrible HC and that Miami brought in garbage players.. As for in KC, not sure how you can blame Daboll there. They lost their starting center 3 games in and didn't have an adequate back-up. That has to fall on Pioli, RAC and their O-Line Coach. They also lost their primary back-up TE (Kevin Boss) after 2 games, though they still had enough offensive weapons that they should have done better than they did, but Lilja, Hochstein and Allen proved not to be up to the task of holding up the interior of that line.. And that hurt them big time.

Where I will hold Daboll accountable as an OC is the fact that Cassell clearly regressed. Possibly because of the injuries. Possibly because of getting sacked so many times (41 times in his last 18 games). But possibly from Daboll being his 3rd OC in 4 years..

He failed. That's a simple fact. Whether there were extenuating circumstances is debatable. He had 3 shots and you seldom get more absent a step back and resume rehab. Have no idea what Bill saw in him early on but it was not as much as he saw in Josh. And Daboll, like Davidson and Mangini, was impatient and disagreed with his assessment. He wanted to at least get the QB's coach title in order to remain, and Bill denied him. Perhaps Bill now feels that Daboll having been humbled by the harsh reality of the process still has upside and the potential to become an OC. Josh probably won't be here past next season given there is already interest in him after just one season back on the Brady train.

And there is the matter of Daboll's previous experience in working with WR's here and developing both Branch and Givens between 2002-2006 - although Brady himself had a little something to do with that. A level of success this team hasn't been able to duplicate since. He had nothing to do with Brown and Patten's development within the system or their sympatico with Brady since he wasn't a position coach in 2000-2001, he was a defensive assistant his first 2 years here. Coming in from a graduate assistent stint with Saban at MSU, as did Josh the following season.