Bedard: Forget the Bills game...The Season Starts Now - Page 5 - New England Patriots Forums

borg · 11-12-2012, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mayoclinic

Bedard had a major hissy fit over the Talib trade, but he seems to have gotten over it.

The last 7 games of the season should be different from the first 9, for a couple of reasons:

1. The Pats have essentially won the AFC East, and are playing for playoff position and more important to round the team into serious playoff competitive form. We're 3 games up on the Jets and Bills with victories over each (2 over Buffalo) and 2 games up on Miami. The Jet and Bills are out of it, and Miami is an extreme long shot. BB has 7 games to whip this team into playoff shape, and hopefully position it optimally for a serious title run.

2. The move of McCourty to FS seems like a permanent thing, which will limit the weekly personnel movement, and Talib comes off suspension tomorrow. The Pats will finally be in position to start playing some aggressive press-man defensive with a deep cover-1 safety. Andrew Luck and Matt Schaub are the only really good QBs they face in their last 7 games.

Bedard's also right about the Bills. They've been pesky for the Pats for a while, going back to the opening of the 2009 season. Lot of ugly and awkward games. The 25-24 comeback to start 2009, and a 17-10 win later that year. An ugly 38-30 win early in 2010. The 4 interception loss last year, and the ugly start in the 2nd game before coming to win. And having to come from behind this year after being down in the 3rd quarter. Only 1 of the past 8 games against the Bills has been one-sided. It just hasn't been an easy matchup for the Pats.

Regardless, I agree with him. The season starts now, for better or worse. Time to start finding out if BB can turn this team into a serious contender.

Few teams have a back with speed enough to turn the corner. Put that kind of player on team with a passing game that must be respected.....that is a lethal combo vs a Pats D with such a slow LB corp. The Spiller drafting was confusing at the time because of all the Buffalo needs, but no doubt Spiller is a perfect weapon to attack a Pats weakness. Sproles had the same effect as well, especially when D's must cover the entire field.

***shmessy*** · 11-12-2012, 08:47 AM

Mangini was our best secondary coach ever - - and he's available

Gumby · 11-12-2012, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cassanova792

Our defense is one of the best and most opportunistic in takeaways in the league, same as last year. We have a very formidable front 7, yet somehow we are one of the worst defenses in the league. This tells me we have talent, scheme is the issue and a coach like Wade can absolutely turn this defense around, more so than Patricia.

Sorry I take the opposite view-point from your example.

I attribute the takeaways to COACHING not Talent. There is a reason that these guys all come in to tackle with hand-chops and swats like Moore did in the playoff game and McC did yesterday. They have been TAUGHT IT.

So even though my gut would agree with the whole coaching needs to step up (that there are some flaws there -especially on turning around soon enough for the ball); I have to take the Deus line here. Talent is a bigger part of the issue.

ANYWAY, BB is NOT going to go firing and demoting someone mid-way through the season unless they completely self-destruct in public/in front of the team. He has WAY TOO MUCH LOYALTY to those he delegates to. [that is, he is TOO GOOD A LEADER TO DO THAT]. The best you can hope for is that he takes a closer mentorship role in practice on the D side and closer management during game day role. But he is not about to switch horses and send a bad message to the players.

***Deus Irae*** · 11-12-2012, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nehalem

How is that any different than the needs of the 2010 defense?

Except for the fact that we just used a 1st round pick on a DE and LB. And 2 2nd round picks on our secondary which is quite possibly worse.

That is why people continue to be upset about the defense and blaming coaching.

People blame coaching because they don't bother to think in their quest for scapegoats. They have no idea who would be to blame if coaching were the problem, yet they're screaming for heads. It's laughable.

As for the "needs of the 2010 defense", come on. Its needs were much greater in the front seven. That defense had Gerard Warren and TBC on it, and was playing Wilfork at DE because the D-line was so thin.

Cassanova792 · 11-12-2012, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deus Irae

People blame coaching because they don't bother to think in their quest for scapegoats. They have no idea who would be to blame if coaching were the problem, yet they're screaming for heads. It's laughable.

As for the "needs of the 2010 defense", come on. Its needs were much greater in the front seven. That defense had Gerard Warren and TBC on it, and was playing Wilfork at DE because the D-line was so thin.

You severely underestimate the importance of strategy and scheme in football. Just apply strategy in nearly every facet of life and look at how important it is to an individual or a teams success. You think that the NFL is based purely on %100 individual skill, i'm sorry to tell you it isn't. I hate your train of thought especially, because you completely remove coaching from the issue and label all who do, as bandwagon scapegoat witch hunters.

We can very well have a lack of talent issue as you have said numerous times before, my whole point is that the lack of talent CAN be fixed if we had the right strategy and scheme to mask those deficiencies while enhancing our efficiencies.

***MoLewisrocks*** · 11-12-2012, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luther

Has BB demoted or fired any coordinators ever?

Nope, because by and large he gets it's all on him (as their selector, trainer, supervisor). He's let some coaches or assistants walk for a variety of reasons (they were unhappy with their upward mobility here or in Pees case likely the scheme restrictions, he was unhappy with their impatience or x's and o's accumen, one had mental issues - and he was a former player tapped to be a db guru). He did however take playcalling control away from Mangini midway through his lone season as a DC here. He did that not officially or by acknowledging any change beyond he simply took away the red sweatshirt that designates the DC (a throwback to the days before they had communication systems in player helmets that still at times malfunction) for defensive players to be able to visually locate the DC for call signals on the sideline.

If he's in red next week and holding a laminated sheet instead of taking notes in his tiny binder we will know who is calling in the defenses and Patricia will be in a little trouble. If Pepper is in red Patricia will have significant issues. While if instead BB id just MIA on the sidelines and found kneeling in front of a group of DB's between series then what he will have done is taken over coaching of the secondary. Whether that leads to a position coaching shakeup down the road will remain to be seen.

***Deus Irae*** · 11-12-2012, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cassanova792

You severely underestimate the importance of strategy and scheme in football. Just apply strategy in nearly every facet of life and look at how important it is to an individual or a teams success. You think that the NFL is based purely on %100 individual skill, i'm sorry to tell you it isn't. I hate your train of thought especially, because you completely remove coaching from the issue and label all who do, as bandwagon scapegoat witch hunters.

I don't underestimate it at all. I probably overestimate it, if anything. When I say that the talent last year was worse than this year, but the coaching staff was able to get it to the middle of the pack in scoring, for example, I'm noting the importance of coaching/scheme/playcalling. And my train of thought is fine, thanks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cassanova792

We can very well have a lack of talent issue as you have said numerous times before, my whole point is that the lack of talent CAN be fixed if we had the right strategy and scheme to mask those deficiencies while enhancing our efficiencies.

You have to have players to make coaching/scheme/playcalling work. To take the extreme, you can have the greatest coaches in history at every coaching position, and you're not beating the Packers with a bunch of high school players.

***MoLewisrocks*** · 11-12-2012, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cassanova792

You severely underestimate the importance of strategy and scheme in football. Just apply strategy in nearly every facet of life and look at how important it is to an individual or a teams success. You think that the NFL is based purely on %100 individual skill, i'm sorry to tell you it isn't. I hate your train of thought especially, because you completely remove coaching from the issue and label all who do, as bandwagon scapegoat witch hunters.

We can very well have a lack of talent issue as you have said numerous times before, my whole point is that the lack of talent CAN be fixed if we had the right strategy and scheme to mask those deficiencies while enhancing our efficiencies.

It's important because nobody can have the level of talent some desire here across the board. Cap restrictions and inverse drafts simply don't allow for it. Belichick's forte has always been maximizing the hand he's dealt (himself) via scheme.

He's either misjudging the role playing capacity of the depth talent he is presently working with or he is doing things that fail to maximize it's talents and perhaps even some of the elite talent he does have. He's been forced to do something over the last 3-4 years that he is never comfortable with. Opt for youth and speed (although not blazing) in place of veteran savvy. There simply aren't many savvy vets with experience in his system left lying around these days to backfill a roster because he's been here now for more than a decade and his branches haven't fared all that well.

He picked up a lot of spare or role playing parts on offense from Josh's forays, not all of which have panned out, not the case on defense. There is no one really running his out there these days unless you count RAC, but he hasn't had much success with the pieces he has. Perhaps over the next season or two as KC goes back to the drawing board some of those kind of players will become available once again, although not nearly as reliably as some of his veteran binky's of the last decade were because they actually played for him for some time.

***Deus Irae*** · 11-12-2012, 11:17 AM

Bottom line: If the 2009 draft had resulted in Jairus Byrd and Sean Smith instead of Chung and Butler, and if 2008 had resulted in Tyvon Branch instead of Wheatley, and if all other things remained the same, we're probably not having a bunch of people complaining about the pass defense in the defensive secondary.

Seacoast Fan · 11-12-2012, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PATRIOTSFANINPA

If Talib comes as advertised it may free up one of the Safeties to double up on the other side where the scrub CB is and help on obvious passing downs.

Talib's performance will either help a lot or just a little,but he WILL help these other cruds out just by being on the field,I am sure some QBs who have faced Talib before,will respect his talents and not always challenge him like the other duds we have out there.

If I am a HC,OC or QB and am facing the Pats,I have no idea why any team in the league would not pass all day long and forget the run.....in fact it befuddles me why opposing QBs don't pass 40 times or more when it's well known that Patricia is not a fan of the blitz so pressure is not that much of a concern.

I say this to the TV at least 10 times every game.
I dont necessarily want to get into the "talent v. scheme" argument, and I understand that BB may be thinking, if you make them throw the ball 5 or 6 times to get 50 or 60 yards, there is more opportnity for a pick, fumble, etc than if you give up a 50 or 60 yard completion, but...

1. We sure seem to give up long completions every game anyway.

2. Yesterday, at the start of the Bills last drive, the Pats blitzed and forced Fitzgerald into bad throw and running out of bounds. Then, on 2 consecutive plays we rushed only three, got no pressure at all and Fitzgerald sat back and made two completions in a row for a total of about 40 or 50 yards.

3. If the secondary can't cover anyone, which seems to be the case regardless of whether they are in zone or man to man, I would rather rush and blitz more and give the QB less time. Maybe against a great QB you get burned, but against a not so great QB (like Fitsgerald, or Seattle's Wilson) you dont get burned.