Barnwell: The Patriots are full of flaws [Grantland] - Page 3 - New England Patriots Forums

BSR · 10-22-2012, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rlcarr

What about the 2nd part of that article? Did Cunningham indeed get a way with a Palmer/Brady-rule violation?

I looked at the linked replay and it's certainly true that after going down, Cunningham crawled forward and grabbed Sanchez's ankle and calf.

Here is the rule emphasis that he is discussing:

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The fifth provision of Rule 12, Section 2, Article 12 (roughing the passer) says that: "A rushing defender is prohibited from forcibly hitting in the knee area or below a passer who has one or both feet on the ground, even if the initial contact is above the knee. It is not a foul if the defender is blocked (or fouled) into the passer and has no opportunity to avoid him."

Fisher said the feeling was that a play like the one Pollard made is one that can be avoided.

"It's a player that's down and then he does that second act where he's getting up and intentionally rolling into the quarterback, or where he's getting up and he lunges at his legs," Fisher said. "We've got a lot of shots where guys have gone down, crawled, and swiped. We don't feel like that's potentially as injurious to the quarterback than the hit where the shoulder comes down to the knee or the planted leg."

I think Fishers second comment as it describes pretty closely what Cunningham did and seems to say that isn't illegal. The actual rule states a "forcibly hitting" which again is not what Cunningham did. I think the reason that Barnwell sees all these plays without penalties is because he is misinterpreting the rules.

BrainTrust66 · 10-22-2012, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marqui

That's not against the rules.

I tend to agree with this - I went and looked up the "Brady Rule":

"A rushing defender is prohibited from forcibly hitting in the knee area or below a passer who has one or both feet on the ground, even if the initial contact is above the knee. It is not a foul if the defender is blocked (or fouled) into the passer and has no opportunity to avoid him."

Then I watched the replay again and while Cunningham did crawl to get to Sanchez, he sort of just grabbed him around the ankles...he didn't "forcibly hit" him. Barnwell could be considered for a replacement ref position the next time the contract is up though.

***Bobs My Uncle*** · 10-22-2012, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deus Irae

I'm not sure where you're getting 7 from. It's obviously too early to count McCourty, Wilson or Dowling out, so I'm finding no more than 4, and that's if you consider Meriweather a failure despite 2 Pro Bowl seasons in 4 years.

I'm getting the totals from the article in question.

andrewgarrr · 10-22-2012, 01:00 PM

I usually like Barnwell, but he contradicts himself so hard in this article.

Quote:

The Patriots are full of flaws.

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It's a shame, too, because the Patriots really are above average or better in every other facet of the game.

How are they full of flaws, but only their secondary sucks?

Patstopia · 10-22-2012, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ivan

We would much rather have you as the GM.

Sucks going to 5 super bowls in 10 years and either winning or tying for the division every year. Man does this team suck, and so does Belichick, it's a shame some fantasy fan who lives in mommy's basement and spends 800 hours a year waiting for WEEI to get to their incredibly important take can't take over and run this crappy team.

Hope things are going good in Fall River, have a good day.

Don't throw reality into the pity party. Poor us, woe be upon us and our poor sister of the poor football team. We never ever get close to winning.

If only we had a stout secondary like the Jets, look how far they have gone.

***goheels22002*** · 10-22-2012, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deus Irae

I'm not sure where you're getting 7 from. It's obviously too early to count McCourty, Wilson or Dowling out, so I'm finding no more than 4, and that's if you consider Meriweather a failure despite 2 Pro Bowl seasons in 4 years.

I agree. These draft criticisms are always done in a vacuum. Like, who is the great team that drafts and develops defensive backs? What teams are we comparing the Patriots to, precisely?

There are few defensive backs that just show up with their cap and gown on and become shutdown corners or safeties. The speed of the game, the accuracy of the QBs and the complexity of the offenses makes being a DB very difficult in the NFL.

The other thing about this draft criticism is that the Patriots, because they're always in the playoffs, draft late. Merriweather at #24 and McCourty at #27 are the only two DB #1s since 1999. The rest of their DB selections are #2s or later.

Third point is that good DBs are prohibitively expensive and teams do not let them walk. The Jets and the Eagles have over-invested in their defensive backfields the last few years and last I checked, their head coaches are on the hot seat with little to indicate they they'll have winning records this year.

olschool · 10-22-2012, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deus Irae

I'm not sure where you're getting 7 from. It's obviously too early to count McCourty, Wilson or Dowling out, so I'm finding no more than 4, and that's if you consider Meriweather a failure despite 2 Pro Bowl seasons in 4 years.

An alternate in a popularity contest doesn't equate to a good player.

Meriweather was easily as lame as any d-back they have now.

Yeah, some of these guys may develop into excellent players some day.

We've been hearing that every year since Ty Law left town.

***Deus Irae*** · 10-22-2012, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by olschool

An alternate in a popularity contest doesn't equate to a good player.

Meriweather was easily as lame as any d-back they have now.

No, he wasn't.

Quote:

Originally Posted by olschool

Yeah, some of these guys may develop into excellent players some day.

We've been hearing that every year since Ty Law left town.

This is a really weak argument, given that Samuel did just that.

robbomango · 10-22-2012, 02:33 PM

I don't mind the criticism of the team especially the secondary, it was the second part of his piece rambling on about the Brady rule. Sounds like something I'd hear from an angry, bitter Jet homer.

letekro · 10-22-2012, 02:44 PM

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Originally Posted by Uncle Rico

This is the big ouch here. Instead of grilling Belichick about whether or not he hates the Jets, maybe guys like Breer should grill him on football questions ... like on this subject. Would take some bawls, but that's what they're paid for. And I don't mean be shrill about -- I mean be clear, informed, firm and fair. Too much to ask? Of course.

Maybe not Breer, but the local reporters have to walk a fine line here as their livelihood is based on access to the team. What's the point in asking this question, other than to point out BB's failures?? BB would likely see it as taking a shot at him, which could have significant negative repercussions for the asker.